99 accord stalls then will start in "drive"

[95Z71]

Here we go, I have been batteling this one for months.
My daughtes 99 accord runs great and has always been maintained,EXCEPT!
It will stall once and a while and she can restart the car with the automatic gear selector in the D4 position. It has been back to honda for the ignition recalls and I have put in a new main relay ( a shot in the dark at this point) and the IAC has been reapired. I keep thinking it is still an ignition switch problem or maybe a neutral safety switch (doubtful). It has an aftermarket autostart also.
As always the car has had regular maintanace and when its not stalling it runs perfectly. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[jeffcoslacker]

Wow this is a bit weird.

After my wife's '95 got wrecked the other night, which destroyed among other things the shift selector at the tranny and wadded the tunnel in the floor and moved the shifter, I noticed something interesting.

The tranny is stuck in reverse, the shifter is not moving the tranny linkage anymore, but the neutral safety switch still reacts to the shifter's position, so although the tranny linkage is actually in reverse, the car still starts (in reverse gear) when you put the shifter in the park or nuetral positions...

So obviously Honda's NSS is indexed from the shifter, not the actual gear position selector on the tranny like a lot of cars, which is kind of stupid because it creates the possibility that misadjustment could make it possible to start the vehicle in gear.

So in your car if the NSS at the shifter is having some problem that allows it to change position to where it can be restarted in D4 position instead of neutral, it follows logically that it would also sense the park position wrong and could be started in reverse also when this happens...has this ever been tried?

The NSS shouldn't make it stall regardless, it only interrupts the starter, not the igntion or fuel.

Is she certain it is actually starting in D4 and not neutral? Does she continue to drive then without changing the shifter position once it starts? I only ask because if this is possible, then that whole thing is a red herring that is just going to complicate dignosis, if she's sure then it's quite possible it is relevant, in that case I'd be looking into the fail-safe provisions of the remote starter as a possible cause. For instance if the car is running with no keys in the ignition, does the remote kill the motor if the selector is manually put in gear by using the manual shiftlock override on the shifter? If so, the gear position sensor or NSS is wired into the Remote Start, and could be the cause...I don't know much about remote start systems, but I'd think a good one would have some provisions to prevent theft while running keyless, which could cause what you are describing if something went wrong...I know some aftermarket anti-theft systems that had both starter interrupt and fuel shutdown would cause stalling or no-start when they began failing....

[95Z71]

Thanks for the reply,Sorry to hear about the wifes car. I hope no one was hurt.
I am going to try staritng it "in gear" myself later today. And see what happens, My daughters pretty observant and I asked her to realy pay attention when this happens. It so random I can't get a handle on it.Everytime I think I have it solved It will happen again. I beleive the autostarts only antitheft provision is igniton cutoff when the brake is applied so it cannot be put in gear without the key in the run postion.
I will post what or if I find anything. I am also still open to any other suggestions.

[jeffcoslacker]

Ok...like I said I don't know much about remote starters, but it occured to me since Hondas have that readily accessible override on the brake/shift interlock that they might do something a bit different on them...

But I see your point...if you can't use the brake, doesn't matter if you can put it in gear or not, you still can't drive it...makes sense.

does the stalling happen in fits of several occurences, and then work fine for a while, or just random events?

[95Z71]

They are random, It will run for great for two weeks then stall and start right back up.and run great for a week and stall etc... BUT, The engine light came on and stayed on this time, So I am going to get the code. And see if that will lead me anywhere. I will post the code when I get it.
Thanks

[95Z71]

I think it was inertia that let the car to start in drive, When it stalled she was doing 55 mph so I thinking by tuning the key the to the start position in drive it allowed the engine to restart, It would not start when I tried it in D4 I don't think it has anything to do with the NSS.
SO, I still haven't figured this one out, I cleaned the IAC once again and it ran well for a week without tossing a code,But she stalled again and the light is back on. She is coming home from school this weekend and I am sending the car in to a electrical guy for help. I am still leaning toward the ignition switch even though it has been replaced under the recall. I will post as soon as I get a little further along. -95Z

[jeffcoslacker]

I guess you tried rattling the key around while it runs or turning it slightly off the rest position while running, to see if it stalls?

[95Z71]

I have, but it was months ago,and the car was back at the dealer for the "recall repair kit" for the mechanical side of the ignition switch. But,I will try it again this weekend to see if I can get it to stall.
Thanks

[95Z71]

Well I pulled the electrical side of the igniton switch out to look at it and It appears to have some brown spots near one of the white wires. Possably from some arcing. I am send it back to the dealer for them to inspect it and see if the switch was actualy replaced unde recall. If it has I think it should be covered again. Has any one else had this problem?
Also the code it is showing is P1164 any help on that one?
Thanks 95Z

[95Z71]

Solved! (maybe), I ended up at the dealer, Convinced it was another ignition switch.I had them convinced as well, But they checked out the autostart before they did the switch and they say its the autostart malfunctioning. I am going to remove the autostart asap and have her run and see if that does it.
Has anyone else had any trouble with there aftermarket autostart?

I will post updates.

[95Z71]

Well well well. I ripped the auto start out. And while I was doing that I wiggled some of the wires near the ignition switch and I heard a relay clicking.
So, I started the car and wiggled the wires agian and it would stall. It was the igniton switch (electrical side)not the auto start. I pulled the switch out and set it to the run postion and checked the two black and white wires with a multi meter. As I wiggled the wires around the meter would jump all over the place.
Now the dealer charged me 100.00 bucks to tell me it was the auto start.Which it clearly wasn't. I ripped out a 200.00 auto stater that was fine. HEARS THE QUESTION OF THE DAY. Should the dealer replace the ignton switch and refund the 100.00 I paid them when they misdiagnosed the problem. This switch was replaced under recall a few years ago. So are they still on the hook for a faullty replacement switch? I should think they are.

[jeffcoslacker]

I would think they would agree to some kind of compensation for their error.

I'd put it all back together and let them verify...they won't take your word for it once you've replaced or removed anything...

If they replaced a known defect item with a part that was not upgraded to correct the problem, I'd say there is cause for them to at least eat the cost of the replacement part, if not the labor...usually once a problem is discovered with a certain part, the manufacturer will correct it with a superceded part number that they use for replacement...

Take a look on the ODI site (I don't have a link at the moment, just search ODI defects) and enter your vehicle info in a search for recalls and defects, try to find the bulletin for the ignition switch and see what the reccomended action is...

[jeffcoslacker]

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...fectsearch.cfm

Here's the link...

[95Z71]

I talked to the dealer again this morning. They agreed to replace the switch and reimburse me for the mis-diagnosed auto start. At first they said no. But they called me back a few min. later and said they would take care of everything. I will repost after I get the car back and it runs without stalling for a while.
-Thanks-95z

[jeffcoslacker]

Cool...good luck!