Who thinks they can pull a drawing like this off?

[1986]

Originally Posted by grantrl78

And if you had an opaque projector?
That f430 is beautiful. And it was traced like a 1986 Mercury Tracer with a 50 Caliber
chain gun mounted over the sun roof blasting tracers at bowling pins at night in the desert.

No idea what you meant with that

Even after checking all the word seperately in a dictionary it still makes little to no sense.

But i guess it was meant as a compliment...

JK

[grantrl78]

I am just joshing with you 1986. Dictionaries don't usually pickup on that type of thing....yet. Paraphrased for you: That is a beautiful drawing of a ferrari, but you OBVIOUSLY traced it.

[lemorris]

here it is again

should have warned you Hotrod X.

Tracing is a viable illustration method. Time tested and true. It goes back centuries. To the masters and before. If you think otherwise you are stoned. If you think tools like cruves, sweeps and ellipses are cheating then you are really stoned.

We have this discussion 15 times a year on here and it never changes anything. fact of the matter is "if you can't draw well, you can't trace well either" I think it was Bonzelite who professed that.

This is the silliest topic ever. The working artists sites never have this discussion. You folks in denial need to wake up and smell the industry. If you think a client is going to appreciate the fact that you didn't use an ellipse on the tires on the drawing you're doing for him because you think it's cheating and that's why your tires are wobbly and not quite right....dream on...he'll call you an amateur and hire someone who knows what they're doin to do his work. If you go to industrial design school and try to pull that "no tools" line you'll get dropped like a bad habit.

Illustration and fine art are two different beasts and the line is blurred severely these days. Technically a pencil is a tool. If you use one are you cheating?

oh to answer dudes question...I think the initial rendering is both. Hand done and computer enhanced.

[lemorris]

one more thing

Joe, can you post reference of the vehicle you want drawn and the wheels and detailed information. Also if you are willing to pay say how much. If you're asking for a freebie that's cool, but asking for the initial drawings skill level and "free" doesn't seem to line up IMO. That's a pro level drawing so some compensation for whomever attempts it would be in order, especially if you plan on using the drawing to generate income in any way.

and sup to Bonzelite...it's been a long time man

thanks

[Roboduck]

Lemorris... I always love your input... it forces one back to reality. Most "Illustrators" I know can draw; however, they do most of their magic using vector over photos, or pencil roughs, etc. I do both, sometimes on the same work. Could anyone ever think of Jeri as a non-artist? Her work is, to say the least, as professional as they come. Robo

[1986]

Originally Posted by grantrl78

I am just joshing with you 1986. Dictionaries don't usually pickup on that type of thing....yet. Paraphrased for you: That is a beautiful drawing of a ferrari, but you OBVIOUSLY traced it.

if you mean putting a piece of paper over a photo you're want to bet on that?

if you mean i only used 1 ref pic, then yeah, guilty of that

[grantrl78]

Originally Posted by 1986

if you mean putting a piece of paper over a photo you're want to bet on that?

if you mean i only used 1 ref pic, then yeah, guilty of that

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

[lemorris]

well I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. Maybe you did just freehand that car by looking at the reference pic. It really doesn't matter. It's a fine piece.

It looks like it was art-o-graphed or grid method which sorry to tell you guys is not "freehand" the grid is in fact a "tool" it is a method used to duplicate a photograph. Yes you draw it by hand without tracing over the photo but you do use squares at a larger size and refer back to the smaller grid to get your key points. You are in fact copying what you see into predetermined proportioately scaled and measured squares. It is copying. Once again it's a viable illustration method but it ain't any purer than doing a pencil sketch, scanning it and redrawing it in Illustrator or whatever. It's all relative. Art isn't in the method.

Your drawing is very very good. It does have a "photograph" look though. Remember...the camera only has one eye and it's take on reality has a distinct signature as a result. Your drawing has that as it's level of realism and tone looks like a photo. Now that's not bad at all. Rockwell, who I would challenge anyone here if they didn't see the masterfulness in his works, did in fact trace and transfer and light table and whatever he had to do to make that lineart work so he could paint it. From a certain perspective if you use lineart in any form it's a "cheat".

I don't think Grant is trying to insult you here. I think we all think it's a great piece and once again if you're saying you freehanded that just by looking at a picture, no grid, no art-o-graph, not light table (which I use religiously I might add) then good for you.

Art is not a competition. You do not have to "prove" anything to anyone. As an artist you never truly compete against anyone else. The individual pursuit is where the true art lies. This back and forth is silly too. Just draw what you draw. Illustrate what you illustrate. Get down how you get down.
Post it when you're done cause regardless of skill level it's all awesome.

-Lemorris

[grantrl78]

1986 you freakin rule. Your work is stellar.

[GirlBear]

Wow I deliberately avoided this thread . I took offence to the title. "Who thinks they can pull a drawing like this off?" F you! But I am on both sides of the tracing issue. I started drawing when i was 4. In day care an artist came in drew a race car and gave it to me. I went home and traced it probably a thousand times until i could draw it freehand with my eyes closed. In 30+ yrs I've done probably more than 20k automotive drawings/illustrations/renderings. If i said I haven't traced since i was 4. I'd be a liar. Some times it just makes more sense. I love tackling a drawing armed with only an eraser and a pencil. I also love putting out an awesome technical looking masterpiece. And u cant consistently draw true lines and perfect ellipses with out some sort of tools. Since I've been turned onto Illustrator Ive regretted not having known or used it the last few years. I never considered computer assisted drawings art. Until I actually fell in love with it. When kids ask me what i think about their art work. I always give Kudos. But I also tell them its not what i think. it only matters how it makes u feel. Art is an extension of our souls. Or at least its an extension of mine.

[lemorris]

well said

[drunken monkey]

again, i was hoping that the sums up my position on this.

Just so you know, I am not the best person to put to the "if you think anyone can do it, you try it" test as I am not entirely alien to how the programs are done. As it happens, the only thing I've got installed on my home pc right now, is Vectorworks, Autocad 2006 and Max 9.

I can attempt a drawing if you really want me to but it won't be any time until after the 22nd as I'm out of the country from this thursday until then and I've got too many things that have to be issued before I fly.

For the sake of the discussion.
You say that using a program takes no less skill and hand eye co-ordination than drawing by eye. Thing is that isn't the same as tracing but you seem to be comparing either tracing or drawing in digital media with "traditional" media to suit your argument.

As I said before, tracing is tracing no matter the medium and as far as I see it, tracing is easier than drawing by eye, just as drawing in a digital format is harder than tracing in a digital format.

No?
Or is it just different?

It seems to me that it annoys when people don't know the difference between tracing and drawing and it follows from this that it annoys you when people don't admit to tracing.

Going back to my point about the questionable worth of copying an image; I wasn't talking about monetary worth.
Let's say I have a photograph.
You spend x number of hours replicating that photograph near enough 100%.
What was the point of copying the photograph?

Y'see, I am also not a philosopher.
I see myself as somewhat of a realist and realistically, I am a good copier; no more. Now this is probably down to me having a thing against people who seem to be too hung up on titles and classifications. More specifically, I have a thing against people who seem to wear things as if it defines their existance. I'm going to revert to stereotype and paraphrase Confucius;
the wise man does not think he is wise, rather it is other people who tell him he is so.

Why do you care that some people can't see the work involved in doing what you do? Why do you feel the need to proclaim that all decent drawing (here or otherwise) is traced?

Does this qualify as being "realistic" in your books?
Do you think any of the three are traced?

[rexsins-art]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"right turn clyde" lol

the old schoolers should get this one

[drunken monkey]

those are of a chimp, clyde was an orangutan.

so... it should be.....

"You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"

[drunken monkey]

with a response like that, i am left wondering if you are just looking for an argument and that popcorn munching smiley isn't helping.

Thank you for your advice.
For the record, first of all; those were done nigh on 11 years ago back in school as method studies (as in the result isn't the important part of the exercise) and are just what I have already online somewhere. I also asked you using them as reference to get an idea of what it is you're talking about.
If, as it sounds, you are talking about photo realistic images, I have to ask; why bother when you can just take a photo?
I also have to ask, where do you get that I have whatever century artist code delusions?

if you are asking whether i need your validation, I again ask you, why does it bother you that other people don't recognise the skill in doing a digital image? Do you need other people to validate your own worth as an artist/illustrator/whatever you want to call yourself?

As for what I am drawing, what if I don't want to trace?
You seem to be putting forward the notion that if you aren't tracing you're either lying or your drawing isn't going to be as good as a tracing.

Y'see, despite what you might think, I am just trying to understand you; hence questions. If I didn't want to know or if I am just trying to force my opinion on you and argue for the hell of it, I wouldn't be asking questions.