Pinging - EGR question

[crankky]

Trying to solve a pinging problem with our 01 Windstar. I had posted a few weeks ago and it was suggested that I have the EGR ports cleaned.

Mechanic checked today and said that while there was some buildup, none of the ports were completely blocked. Would partially or slightly clogged EGR passages cause pinging problems? I also asked if he had checked the EGR valve itself and he said no, because in his experience that is not generally a problem.

If we use 93 octane fuel it runs like a champ. I'm going to pick it up this afternoon and try some 87 to see if the cleaning helped.

Any other suggestions? Thanks to all.

[jfsledge]

I use 93 octane on my '98 3.8L Windstar - no pinging. If regular fuel - much pinging.

[catvents]

Originally Posted by crankky

Trying to solve a pinging problem with our 01 Windstar. I had posted a few weeks ago and it was suggested that I have the EGR ports cleaned.

Mechanic checked today and said that while there was some buildup, none of the ports were completely blocked. Would partially or slightly clogged EGR passages cause pinging problems? I also asked if he had checked the EGR valve itself and he said no, because in his experience that is not generally a problem.

If we use 93 octane fuel it runs like a champ. I'm going to pick it up this afternoon and try some 87 to see if the cleaning helped.

Any other suggestions? Thanks to all.

Do you have a CEL on? (Check engine light) If so, a DPFE sensor ( causing a P0401 code insufficient
EGR flow) can be a cause of pinging.

[tripletdaddy]

These engines were designed to operate on 87 octane. Something is not right if it won't run without pinging unless you use high octane fuel. I will have to default to others as to what causes this and what to fix.

[crankky]

Nope, no CEL right now. Runs great on 93.

Here's a recent history:

2007 - Had a mild pinging problem for about 3-4 months, but nothing severe. Mostly on hard acceleration. Had a Motorvac service done (upper engine, fuel injection).

June 2007 - Starts running very rough. Replaced plugs, wires and ignition coil. Problem ultimately traced to the coil, but the other stuff was past due anyway. Rough running solved, still have mild pinging.

Novemeber 2007 - Running rough again, CEL. Plus an unsettling knocking (deeper than the ping). Ends up being low on oil (source of the knock), plus an oil fouled plug (only 5 months old). Replaced the plug and car is running fine at this point, except for the pinging. Oil change at this time, plus a bottle of "Restore" at the mechanics suggestion. Had to add about 1 quart after a couple of weeks (Maxlife 5-30).

December 2007 - Pinging still bugging me. Had the MAF sensor cleaned. No help. Started putting 93 octane fuel in it and pinging goes away. Plus oil consumption seems to have slowed considerably. Restore treatment? Maxlife? Who knows.

January 2008 - Had EGR ports checked. Some buildup but none completely blocked. Still no CEL's. Cleaned what was there. Wife puts in 89 octane to see what happens, but no report yet.

Off the top of my head, that's all I can think of over the past 6-8 months. I'm thinking of using a bottle of AutoRX at the next oil change but don't know if that would make a difference.

[garync1]

yea you really should check out the EGR an dpfe first to make sure there ok. Now sometimes the cleaning and every thing may not work. You may end up having to go to dealer or a service place that can update the timing on the van. Left uncheck will cause piston damage over time. If high octane seems to help which means to me timing and fuel mixture is off. If you have a problem with the EGR system than that will throw the PCM off to correct. IF you plan on keeping the van you may want to further look at the EGR system and the other areas to make sure it up to par. Vacuum leaks as well..

[wiswind]

I have used AutoRX.....although my engine was already pretty clean inside....I did notice some cleaning action.
Again, I had no sludge......some very slight varnish could be seen through the oil fill cap...and that was removed.
FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS for best results.
I do recommend this as a preventative maintenance item.

A vaccum leak can lean out your fuel mix.....and cause pinging....still slight enough to not light the CEL.
The "Isolator Bolt TSB" that is mentioned in the "sticky" post at the top of this room is a good idea, if not already done.
I think that the front valve cover issue was solved by 2001, the TSB post has a link that shows how to check for this....at the PCV valve.
Excess oil being drawn in due to the valve cover ('99) could cause carbon buildup inside the cylinders, causing higher compression, which caused the pinging.
A solution was higher octane fuel.......or having the PCM reprogrammed at the dealership to slightly retart the timing.

Partially clogged EGR ports could cause pinging and/or missing due to uneven distribution of the EGR flow.
More of the oxygen depleted EGR flow would go through the less clogged ports, causing those cylinders to have less oxygen than the other cylinders.
The ports tend to clog faster at the driver's side, leaving the ones at the passenger side (#3 and #4) more open.
So, having the EGR ports cleaned was a good move.
Your mechanic was correct, the EGR valve IS pretty reliable on the windstar.
The DPFE, which is what senses the actual total EGR flow could be slightly bad....causing incorrect measurement of EGR flow.
The only DIY way to know would be to replace it....as it is not a solid failure.....the voltages would be in range....just not accurate to the flow.

[MARZBX157]

Hey Crankky, was the pinging issue resolved? My 2000 windstar has this pinging also and I would like to know what cured it for you if anything. I am thinking of changing my spark plugs and wires as well as opening the upper intake manifold and cleaning the inside out to see what happens. Thanks.

[OldFaithful]

I'll throw this in here, just for good measure. Inappropriate fuel mixture can cause any engine to ping. My daughter's 2000 Windstar with a 3.8 engine was always sensitive to Shell gasoline and would ping as well as lack of power and crummy performance. One day after many years of pinging service, it failed to start. The fuel pump had failed.

Ford replaced the fuel pump and all of those problems with pinging were gone! We had checked the fuel pressure but not with the pump supplying a high demand load. In retrospect, it looks like the pressure would drop at higher fuel flows, which no one including Ford checked and that caused the pinging, otherwise why would a new fuel pump solve the pinging and marginal running problems with that engine. My 2000 Windstar with a 3.8 has always run fine without any pinging or performance problems. I maintained both vehicles for years and still have mine with 140,000 miles and it's performance is still like new and I've never used anything but 87 octane in it.