remote start

[Blaze_1]

i have a F taurus 2003
that i bought used from a dealer

when i use the remote start it starts but sometime in the next day the car will not start with the use of the key, i have to use the remote start.

[shorod]

When the car won't start the following day, does the engine crank, just no start? Or, do you not even get cranking and the THEFT light comes on?

-Rod

[ponchonutty]

I bet someone bypass the PATS system by placing a key inside a box with wires that go around the ignition cyl.. It's probably not wired correctly or the bypass is sticking or letting the key code to bleed through.

Next time it won't start, see if the PATS light you have on your dash is blinking rapidly.

[Blaze_1]

the engine does not even start
the theft light does come on

[ponchonutty]

Sounds like an issue with either your PATS decoder or the bypass.

[worthirt_99]

when it doesn't start, does your dash light up with the normal warning lights before it starts or not. You know like the oil light and such? I'm agreeing with ponchonutty though.

[shorod]

Since the THEFT light comes on when the car won't start, it sounds like the PATS system is not letting the PCM enable the starter motor. You say, " the engine does not even start." I'm taking this to mean the starter motor does not crank the engine over.

I agree that the installer of the remote start system probably did not properly bypass the PATS system during a remote start. I suspect they attempted to use one of the electronic mimic boxes rather than wrapping an antenna around a spare programmed key and using a relay to connect the antenna to the key cylinder antenna. If the remote starter has a "Start" activiation output on it, the relay and spare programmed key is probably the more reliable method. But, the operation in either case will only be as good as the installation. If the bypass system remains enabled during a start attempt with the actual key, the PATS system may disable the starter. This is probably what's happening in your situation.

Sounds like you either need to have the remote starter system removed or get a qualified person to correct the installation. Hopefully they used a T-harness rather than splicing into all your wiring.

If you have access to someone with a professional scan tool that owes you a favor, have them scan the PATS system in your car and report back with the diagnostic code. For the PATS system, the code should be of the form B1234 where '1234' can be a series of numbers starting with either a 1 or a 2 in this case.

-Rod

[ponchonutty]

shorod, actually the "wrap a key with wire" trick is the most unreliable method to bypass these PATS systems that Ford uses. I should know, this was a big issue with me a few years ago with my business. At the time the only way to bypass these systems was to do sort of what you say but I used DEI's part #556u which is just a fancy box that you put a key inside. There as an antenna ring that you placed around the key cyl. . When the remote start was activated it clicked the relay inside the box which then sent the code from that key to the car.

That method would work 99% in moderate temps but once the interior of the car went below 25 degrees, the keys would freeze and would not send the proper code out. The temporary fix was the freeze the keys that you installed in that box prior to install. That helped but still had issues. Now, there's data bypasses that electronically mimic those keys. Since those have come out, I haven't had an issue to date.

[shorod]

Can't argue with that, it's been a couple of years (fortunately) since I've had to install a remote starter to bypass PATS. Plus, I don't do that professionally, just on my own vehicles and a few friend's vehicles. I've made my own antennas and wired in my own relays. I've never had a problem with them here in Iowa. There are certainly areas that get colder than Iowa, but mine have always worked for me. I did try an early mimic box, it was horribly unreliable. I'm sure they've improved them tremendously after more research.

Did you ever get an explanation of what was freezing in the key? The transponder doesn't really have anything that I would expect could freeze. There are no moving parts, and I'd think that as the key got cold, the "super conductor" effect would make the system more reliable. I don't understand what of the transponder could freeze, but I haven't researched it and don't get automotive security trade magazines, so I'm out of the loop.

-Rod

[ponchonutty]

Personally I really don't know. That answer to freeze the keys came from DEI's techs but it never worked that much better for me. That's when I started to look elsewhere for bypasses.

[MyTaurus8AChevy]

Originally Posted by ponchonutty

It's probably not wired correctly or the bypass is sticking or letting the key code to bleed through.

If it doesn't work with the key but it does with the remote start then that starts to point to an ignition switch issue (or wiring). Shorod is right, you'll need to get a qualified person to check over and correct the installation. There simply are too many variables that we don't know about. For example; it could be an intermittent problem with the starter, has that been ruled out? Has anyone tested the ignition system to see what code(s) it pulls? Did they use crimps or soldier their wires on the remote install? If they used crimps that could be an issue waiting to happen right there. Also what 'brand' of remote starter is it? Did it come from Wally World or did it come from a reputable supplier like DEI? Just because it 'came from a dealer' doesn't necessarily mean anything, as most dealers farm out their installs for these things. Too many variables, but I would put the Alarm/remote start in bypass mode if possible and test it from there. The first thing that you need to find out is what is the source of the problem, the car or the remote start. Don't assume anything

Did you ever get an explanation of what was freezing in the key?

There was one company that I know of that was making some really cheap keys, and if you moved the key just right it would stop working. Temperature also effected these keys (making and breaking the contacts). As far as I know it was only one company that had problems and they are no longer distributing the keys. Might still be some left on ebay though

[ponchonutty]

Well I was using OE Ford keys so I don't think it was due to bad keys unless that company you are talking about also supplied those to Ford too.

[MyTaurus8AChevy]

No Ford did not buy their keys from this supplier so it was most likely due to something else. We actually no longer use the old fashioned 'key boxes'. DEI makes a really nice bypass box and so does another company on the net whose name now escapes me. The new bypass boxes are much more reliable too, and the last thing you want is to hear is a customer complaining in your ear because their car wouldn't start and they had to have it towed for 10 miles