Roaring Noise When Driving - Can't figure it out???

[hot_sd]

Ummm...first it was insults to the husband now the sears tech. LOL. Entertaining thread

Originally Posted by freesiagirl

The Chilton's manual says that the correct torque for the axle nut is 190, is that correct?

129 ft lbs according to my factory manual for my 2000 Metro. I wonder what people are doig to their bearing by following the Chilton specs.

[freesiagirl]

The problem is solved!!! YIPPEE!!!
OK, so my husband and brother, changed the passenger side front wheel bearing. It looks like when the previous owner had that changed, they only changed the outer bearing and not the inner. The inner bearing looked factory, and scrubbed when they spinned it. So, we test drove it and the noise was still there.
Soooo, they changed the driver's side. They looked factory and were pretty bad. AND that eliminated my noise!!! YAHOO@@!!!
And, they torqued it to 129. So, thank you so much everyone!!!

[Syndrome Zed]

Originally Posted by freesiagirl

The problem is solved!!! YIPPEE!!!
OK, so my husband and brother, changed the passenger side front wheel bearing. It looks like when the previous owner had that changed, they only changed the outer bearing and not the inner. The inner bearing looked factory, and scrubbed when they spinned it. So, we test drove it and the noise was still there.
Soooo, they changed the driver's side. They looked factory and were pretty bad. AND that eliminated my noise!!! YAHOO@@!!!
And, they torqued it to 129. So, thank you so much everyone!!!

Congratulations! Have fun with the little bugger!

[91Caprice9c1]

Excellent news. Glad we kept you away from a trans swap ;-)
Happy motoring.

-MechanicMatt

[DOCTORBILL]

So very glad to hear your problem was not the transmission!

I had bad wheel bearing noise three years ago and from recommendations from
this Forum, replaced them myself.

It was hard work - mostly due to my never having done that before - but it sure
made The Phoenix run a lot quieter.

It rolls or coasts forever.....I save gas by coasting down steep hills in neutral.

My transmission makes a lot of noise compared to other manual transmissions -
except maybe KIA's (which I now think very little of - weak cars).

I am hoping I don't have to swap out the 5 speed.

It makes a lot more noise in cold weather. That's why I wanted to drop the oil
weight down to 50 w - but haven't yet done so.

I also bought some LUCAS oil treatment to try....

How bad does a MANUAL transmission bearing noise have to get before the transmission
explodes or just stops working? ANYONE ?

I've had enough under the hood work to last me the rest of my life....

DoctorBill

[Hugemoth]

My Swift had a noisy transmission when I bought it last year. Loudest in 1st, loud in 2nd, quiet in the rest. I downloaded the transmission shop manual then pulled the trans and took it apart. Found the input shaft bearing was a little rough but everything else looked good. Bought a new bearing at NAPA for $7 and put it all back together. Nice an quiet now for over 20,000 miles.

Pulling the tranny from the 4 cylinder Swift was a little tight but should be pretty easy on the 3 cylinder Metro.

Is your tranny noisier in some gears than others?

Q

[91Caprice9c1]

Originally Posted by DOCTORBILL

How bad does a MANUAL transmission bearing noise have to get before the transmission
explodes or just stops working? ANYONE ?
DoctorBill

Speaking from my own personal experience - I had to let one of the fleet metros get pretty uncomfortably noisey before I could do anything with it because of other work - until finally the poor driver refused to drive it anylonger. So the car still drove around but it made a very unsettling ruckus from the beat up trans - it never got the chance to grenade itself but it could very well have been close lol. Sorry I can't put it in any less aribtrary terms - but for what it's worth, I have seen these 5-speeds keep moving long past the threshold of a comfortable noise level.

-MechanicMatt

[DOCTORBILL]

Hugemoth - (interesting "handle") - do you know the link to the Transmission
shop repair manual? I'd like to read it.....

How was it? Four gozillion parts?

Taking it apart must be a nightmare of little gears, washers, rods - any of which
are misplaced makes the whole thing completely useless.

Transmissions are like magic to me!

Robert A. Heinlein (a science fiction writer of some note) said,
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

Especially Automatic transmissions - amazing things !

I have personally seen the roller bearings in universal joints on a pickup truck
that were bone dry and almost totally worn away and the Universal Joint still
worked! Made noise and bumped, but worked.

91Caprice9c1 says they'll keep working even when the noise is hideous and
wretched.... so I guess I'll not worry about it.

I'll probably die of old age before mine becomes that bad.

I think the bearings in my arse are approaching such a state of wear...

DoctorBill

BTW - is the manual transmission lubricated simply by the oil sloshing around
as the gears turn, or does it have a pump to push the oil thru journals into the
bearings?

Are the gears completely immersed in oil?

[Hugemoth]

I don't have the link to the manual but you can probably do a search on the site and find it. There are 41 pages from pg01.png to pg41.png. If you can't find it I can email it to you.

You're right about there being lots of little parts. Wouldn't have gotten it back together without the manual.

The ring gear sets in oil and basically splashes oil up to the rest of the gears.

Q

[DOCTORBILL]

Is this the link?

http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?p=145642

If so, here it is for all to see and use.....

I am assuming, now, that a '93 Metro 5 speed is the same as in this manual.

Are Tracker transmission the same or does the 4wd make them different?

ALSO - is it possible that after setting all night in cold weather that the
'main' bearings can be above the 80W-90 gear oil and the oil being very viscous,
won't get "splashed" to the main bearing for several minutes of engine idling...?

I doubt that 80W-90 oil would "splash" very well when at 25 ° F or lower here in Spokane.
It is like Karo Syrup even at 70 ° F !

I am still pondering whether or not to

1. Lower the viscosity to 50W with 50W motor oil

or

2. Add some Lucas Oil to do the "STP" thing and have enough lubricant stay
in the bearings for the next morning startup.

or

3. Do both the above.

DoctorBill

[Hugemoth]

Yes, the Geo/Swift all the same, at least for 89 to 2001. Only difference is ring gear size. The Tracker transmission is different.

Interesting point about the oil level. I believe you're right that the input shaft bearings are not in oil when idling in neutral. That really shouldn't be a problem unless you were idling for an extended length of time. The oil isn't really "splashing" around in there, instead it's more like one of those things that is made to dip in honey and drizzle it on to toast. The viscosity of the oil causes it to be drawn up by the ring gear. My bet would be that thicker gear oil would do a better job at sticking around on the bearings than thinner oil. Best thing for the car is to start up and drive off slowly rather than let it warm up, even in very cold weather.

Q

[DOCTORBILL]

Let us take this conversation to a new thread as we are highjacking FREESIAGIRL's thread with a new topic.

I will start a new one about "Warming Up" since this has become quite interesting.

DoctorBill

PS - I am downloading all 41 pages and converting them to jpg files and I'll save that to a CD.
I might even print the entire thing out....

BTW - the pics are in B&W saved in color mode and are about 900 kb/page.
If you convert them to Gray Scale, they go down to about 100 kb/page.
Your Hard Drive space used will go down about ten fold.....

1. It looks as if you need a BUTT LOAD of "special tools" to repair one!
....Two pages near the end to list them!

2. Then again, you don't need to disassemble everything just to change the bearings - no!?

3. BTW - what is in this "Transmission Repair Kit" that I have heard mentioned for around $125 ??

[freesiagirl]

It's been so great driving my car around town without that annoying noise.!!! One thing though, it still has a slight vibration when up to 45 MPH plus.... The steering wheel vibrates. Is this normal in these cars? If not, my hubby still needs to change out that control arm. Could that be it? The bad bushing... Or do I need to replace a front or both axles? It's not the tires as those were just changed. Front rotors, brakes and bearings have been changed....

[Syndrome Zed]

Originally Posted by freesiagirl

It's been so great driving my car around town without that annoying noise.!!! One thing though, it still has a slight vibration when up to 45 MPH plus.... The steering wheel vibrates. Is this normal in these cars? If not, my hubby still needs to change out that control arm. Could that be it? The bad bushing... Or do I need to replace a front or both axles? It's not the tires as those were just changed. Front rotors, brakes and bearings have been changed....

Glad you had more success than I did with my engine! I can't remember if you mentioned it earlier, but after your hubby got the bearing done, did you or he re-do the alignment and check the tire balance? I don't know for certain, but I'm betting having a worn bearing replaced with a nice, fresh one would cause enough of a tweak to the alignment, and maybe even to the balance of the tire mounted to that wheel, to cause a mild vibration. It could still be the control arm, but I'd also double-check the simple things first too. You may get lucky (or if he fixes it for you, maybe your hubby will )!