Are these ALL Passlock-related?

[ebilartninja]

My 1997 Grand Am GT has been having problems starting, and of course I realize I'm not alone by a wide margin. Why won't GM issue a recall on these Passlock problems?

Anyway, my car is having some symptoms alongside others that I'm not sure are related to Passlock. This is all that I've noticed:

- THEFT SYS light remains on - I've never seen it blink like others mention. Every so often I can start the car up and the light will go off, but it will eventually come back on while driving down the road.
- Tried the 'stick key in on position and wait 10min' thing, and it rarely seems to work the first time. I've been late to work all week due to this not starting issue. I sat in my car an hour and forty-five minutes today waiting to crank it, doing the 10 min deal over and over. Eventually it allowed me to start.
- I noticed that it will ONLY allow me to crank it when all other lights are off on the IPC other than the Check Engine Light (which is always on regardless) and the Theft Sys, but all other lights on there go off. When I cannot crank it, ALL of the IPC lights are on (seatbelt, coolant, ABS, etc.).
- When I am driving down the road, I have to keep my foot pressed down on the accelerator at all times, even just a little. If I come to a complete stop w/o pressing on the gas, like at a red light, the car will usually die. So I have to apply the brake with my left foot while still slightly pressing down on the accelerator with the right. This keeps the RPMs up and prevents the car from dying.
- While I am driving down the road, the gauges will bounce up and down and the lights on the IPC will come on and off with the gauges. I.E., all of the IPC lights will come on, and the temperature gauge and RPM gauge will drop to their lowest point. The speedometer and gas gauges are not affected. When the lights go off, these two gauges return to their proper position. This doesn't affect the car's ability to be driven.

- I have already had the ignition lock cylinder and Passlock sensor replaced, so no, I am not doing that again. I took it back and they claimed that it must have been something else then. WTF? I paid you $400 to fix it, and you replace parts that apparently did not need replacing. I do not intend to get ripped off by a Pontiac dealership again, as no regular Joe Mechanic I've been to knows anything about how to fix this. Their 'fix' worked for about 2 months before I started having problems again, but only this week has it started taking longer than 10-20 minutes to start.

I'm pretty sure that I have Passlock I, so does anyone know whether doing the bypasses suggested here will fix ALL of these issues? I don't really want a remote starter, just to be able to start my car!

Thanks in advance... I'm a poor college student, and I'd really like to learn to fix this myself, otherwise I'm on foot .

[tommy00gt1]

To me it sounds like a short.... Did you, or a previous owner, mickey-mouse wires under the dash? Radio or stereo work maybe?
The only reason I ask is I've seen it before when somebody doesn't know what they're doing and start screwing around with wires under the dash. First thing you know, wires get nicked and that's all it takes.

If this doesn't applyto your scenario, just disregard. It does happen though when kids are in a hurry and careless doing things under the dash with radio and lighting work. Just wondering if a previous owner mucked things up.

[ebilartninja]

Originally Posted by tommy00gt1

To me it sounds like a short.... Did you, or a previous owner, mickey-mouse wires under the dash? Radio or stereo work maybe?
The only reason I ask is I've seen it before when somebody doesn't know what they're doing and start screwing around with wires under the dash. First thing you know, wires get nicked and that's all it takes.

If this doesn't applyto your scenario, just disregard. It does happen though when kids are in a hurry and careless doing things under the dash with radio and lighting work. Just wondering if a previous owner mucked things up.

Hey Tommy,

Well, my car does have a non-factory CD player in it, but it was installed by whoever owned it before me. I have owned the car for 2 years, and over the past year I didnt have this problem. I had it last August, and took it to a Pontiac place, where they of course said I need to replace the ignition lock cylinder and Passlock sensor, which I did. It worked fine for a week or two, then started showing THEFT SYS and not starting again. However, it somehow fixed itself, and worked fine - no THEFT SYS light - for a year up until the past week or two! Then over the past week it just got worse and worse, until Friday it wouldnt crank at all. I still cant get it to crank. So it may well be a short. But I have no idea what to check.

Some information that would help me is to know where the PCM is located on the 97 Grand Am. I read a post somewhere else on this site where someone said the PCM could be not fully mounted, but I have no idea where it is. I need to get me a book on repairing this specific car and learn it...

Also, my roommate and I have been trying to fool with it, and to do the snip the yellow wire to disable deal. But we cant seem to get a reading for the resistance for some resistors. He knows far more about this stuff than I, but he hooked up his ohmmeter and following the instructions we got from a bajillion sites but we couldnt get a reading. Do you have to get the car to crank before it will even give a resistance? He said that was most likely the case but it would be nice to get a confirmation. Is there a bypass that DOESNT require the car to be startable?

The battery is fine, too, btw. I wish I could find a easier to read guide on disabling Passlock, with step by step instructions. PICTURES, even!

[tommy00gt1]

Hmmm... I wouldn't know on your year car; I've got a 2000 here. I believe the wiring is different..... Hopefully, Xerofinty (I hope I spelled your name correctly Xero !!) will add some help here. He is way, way knowledgeable in stuff like that. I am quite new but the thread caught my eye because I just had my lock cylinder replaced too. They also made me some new GM keys to go with it. Luckily, all warranty work.

I hope Xero jumps in here... He'll help find out some possible causes.. But whatever it is, it seems to be intermittent.. so hopefully that is a clue.

[ebilartninja]

Originally Posted by tommy00gt1

Hmmm... I wouldn't know on your year car; I've got a 2000 here. I believe the wiring is different..... Hopefully, Xerofinty (I hope I spelled your name correctly Xero !!) will add some help here. He is way, way knowledgeable in stuff like that. I am quite new but the thread caught my eye because I just had my lock cylinder replaced too. They also made me some new GM keys to go with it. Luckily, all warranty work.

I hope Xero jumps in here... He'll help find out some possible causes.. But whatever it is, it seems to be intermittent.. so hopefully that is a clue.

Yeah that'd be great if he would. Maybe if I mention that I recognize his Xenogears userpic? Haha! Xero if you have any help to offer I'd appreciate it. I really love my car and don't want to sell it but I can't really afford to take it to a dealer again!

[ebilartninja]

Well my roommate and I fooled around with it today, and we finally got it to crank! Several times. It wouldn't start EVERY time, though. In fact more times than not it wouldn't start at all, it would turn over and then just die. The THEFT SYS light was of course on.

Once we got it to crank, we snipped the yellow wire. The car continued to run fine. We waited for the battery to charge a good bit (I had run it down pretty bad Friday morning doing the 'wait 10 minutes, turn off/crank, wait 10 minutes' deal in frustration trying to get to work!). Then, turned it off. Then we tried turning it back on - no dice, wouldn't crank. So we waited. Then we turned the key in the ON position. The lights on the IPC, after waiting several minutes, did their on/off thing intermittently, and the gauges would jump up and down every so often. As before, we could crank it once the gauges were in their rightful spot and all lights except the AIR BAG (always on since I bought it), Check Engine, and THEFT SYS lights were off. This was WITH THE YELLOW WIRE CUT. I'm assuming that Passlock was supposed to be disabled with that yellow wire cut. This didn't seem to fix the prob. But the car WILL start occasionally even w/ the yellow wire cut.

The only thing we did different, other than cutting the wire, was use a different key. The key we were trying the past couple days wasn't the one I've been using the past year or so, but once we went back to using that key it cranked every so often. We did get a reading with the ohmmeter, finally, 7.95 kW. Tested it several times and got that reading every time. We had tried many times before to get one but it turns out his ohmmeter was fuxxed. Haha. So we went and bought a new one, along with a pot and finally got that reading. We tried soldering the resistors together to that resistance and put them in there and the car would crank every so often, really no different than when it wasn't there though. We didn't use the relay, as Radio Shack didn't have the relay we needed in stock, nor did AutoZone, and there aren't too many places here to get such things (unless the almighty WAL-MART would have it?). We should've checked O'Reilly's too...

Anyway, I went and bought a Hayes book for my car (well it was for the Grand Am and several other vehicles), I looked through it and couldn't find shiat of where the PCM is located. If I could find where that is I could see if it weren't secure. Other than trying the relay, getting a remote starter installed, or checking the PCM, I don't know what else to do. Unless it realy is a short, and I don't have the slightest where it could be. I definitely can't afford to take it to a dealer anytime soon, and I don't WANT to. I want to fix this myself. Any suggestions from ANYONE?

[ebilartninja]

Well, just thought I'd update.

We finally gave up - tried countless things. Nothing seemed to work. I took it into a local GM dealership. Before I did so, I was thankfully able to borrow $500 from my grandpa because I knew it wouldn't be cheap. Anyway they told me the PCM was faulty and would need to be replaced. $450 they quoted me, parts and labor and tax and all. This was Monday. Got the PCM in yesterday, didn't even install it til today. PROBLEM STILL OCCURS, they tell me. OH, REALLY? But I thought you said that would fix it. So you bought a part, installed it, and it still didnt fix it eh? WHAT A RIPOFF. Now, of course, they're saying there's something wrong with the Instrument Cluster. Duh, obviously. You've kind of narrowed it down with the help of my money. I've replaced the Ign. Lock Cylinder, now the PCM. Only one thing left, dumbasses. If I were to tell them to replace the Cluster, it'll total over $700. All for Passlock non-starting problems. I told them no, that I will be coming to pick it up tomorrow, start or not.

I assume I will have to pay them for the PCM - I doubt they can put my old one back in. Or they'll claim to have discarded it. I have yet to ask. But I will tomorrow. I doubt it, though, since now the PCM is installed and probably programmed it's technically now 'used'. I refuse to pay another $300 for an Instrument Cluster replacement. F'n Ridiculous with a capital R.

My suggestion to anyone having these problems - GET RID OF YOUR GRAND AM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I will be buying a used Instrument Cluster from a junk yard or online and installing it myself. I will then be selling the POS (or stripping it to the bone and selling its parts on eBay) and buying a foreign car if that doesn't fix it.

I do appreciate the help I received here, though. I will update if and when the Instrument Cluster is replaced (by ME).

[xeroinfinity]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck.

It can be costly when repairs are needed for any vehicle new and old.
You could hav bought a performance pcm for $200 plus $100 back when you send in your old PCM.
Then $50-75 to have the PCM tuned.
PFYChas them I believe....

Also the IPC isnt that hard to change either.
See here N-Body Appearance-Non-Performance "Interior parts ".

Good Luck

[ponchonutty]

Well, in most dealer's defense, most don't know what to do with pk1 problems. When reading this, I was thinking of the BCM being the problem but you say now you've replaced that. The last thing to replace would be the instrument cluster because there's a "bulb check circuit" that ties the pk1 and instrument cluster together. I haven't tried it as of yet but I wonder if you'd spend $20 for new bulbs for your cluster and just replace ALL OF THEM would it be OK????? You've already stated that some of the lights come on and some times don't. Could be bad bulbs or sockets. Seeing that this pk1 system needs to check the bulbs, I'd look into that.

[96 grand am]

i had the same trouble in my 96 grand am it was not the pass lock. when you turn the car off do it in neutral and leave it.if it starts all the time like mine did i changed the neutral saftey switch. that was 4 years ago has been fine since

[ponchonutty]

No, this has nothing to do with the safety nuetral switch.

[ebilartninja]

Final bump/update for anyone in the future w/ these probs. I ended up caving in and got the IPC fixed. Couldn't find one in any nearby junk shops and no time to wait, got tired of depending on people for rides and being stuck at home. They thankfully waived the labor costs to replace IPC since they were wrong about what was the problem the first time after claiming 'this will definitely fix it'... still, total was $750 for all. I'll be broke for a long time. All problems mentioned are now fixed though. Car cranks and stays running, no accursed THEFT SYS!

So if you are having all of these problems - try replacing the PCM and IPC yourself. In fact buy them and keep them in your house for the inevitable. lol

Although now I'm having a coolant leak prob... arrggh... but at least that's not a dealer-only fix. Thanks all.

[ponchonutty]

Glad to see that you are up and running. Like I always say the only 2 things to go wrong with the pk2 system is the decoder or BCM but sometimes it's hard to tell which one is at fault.

PK1 systems are even harder because of the cluster using that bulb check wire. Of course in your matter that was a little different because you had all those other problems which made me think BCM at first.

[ponchonutty]

Glad to see that you are up and running. Like I always say the only 2 things to go wrong with the pk2 system is the decoder or BCM but sometimes it's hard to tell which one is at fault.

PK1 systems are even harder because of the cluster using that bulb check wire. Of course in your matter that was a little different because you had all those other problems which made me think BCM at first.