'93 Caravan - Odd Idle, Dies in gear

[TrueLyFE]

Hey Ron.

As I asked before, though, would it cause issues when the van is warmed up? And if the fan turns on/off as it should?

I just warmed it up and drove it around the neighborhood (have to be careful - no plates on it yet), and when warmed up it acts the same as when cold - it dies when in idle, in gear. It will die in gear if the van is moving if the engine RPMs are low enough (low ends of gears). The only difference is that it doesn't die in park or neutral as it does when cold. The RPMs still fluctuate, and the whine of the fuel pump is high (again, I don't know what is loud for Chrysler pumps, I am used to GM whine which is usually very loud to begin with).

It seems to me if it was a CTS issue, the fan would have issues, wouldn't turn on / would always run, or would turn on itermittently etc. - as it is now, it only turns on if the engine temp is high enough to turn on. But the engine still runs like crap when hot. If it was a CTS issue, wouldn't the engine at some point probably run normally - and even then, should the fan work as expected?

[ronmar1]

If the van is acting up as bad as you say, there should be one or more trouble codes entered in the ECM. I'd do the key dance and check for codes. Anything that influences the performance of the vehicle that much should launch a trouble code.
IMHO
Ron

[TrueLyFE]

I checked for codes Ron, there are none (just a 12, 55). I wish there was a code, it'd make things so much easier.

[TrueLyFE]

Well, sidestepping the CTS a bit, I did replace the fuel pump - I got it cheap (new), and the sending unit was dead, so I figured I could at least replace it to fix that.

Cleaned the tank and dropped in the replacement... okay, so it was a bit of a PITA, but I did it. Didn't help with the idle at all - although it is far more silent than the old unit.

I really don't know what else to check - I never got verification that the CTS would a) cause idle issues, even when totally warmed up, and b) if the fan can still work normally even if the CTS is dead. If you *really* think that could be the problem, where I can't go in gear because the car will die, I can't idle in neutral at all cold, and I can barely idle in neutral hot (although sometimes the RPMs get rather high), and the fan still turns on/off when the car is hot and not when cold, let me know and I will give it a shot.

I'm about done throwing money away at this car that I have put only a few (read: low two digits) miles on.

[TrueLyFE]

Put in the new CTS - the one that was in there did seem pretty old. Only ~$12, so I gave it a go.

No change.

Is this van a goner?

[pentabob]

Hi TrueLyfe,
Been following your thread, has to be frustrating to say the least, I know you stated in your original post that you cleaned the throttle body, but your symptoms sure do point in that direction, did you clean the edges of the throttle body butterfly?, check the barrel for wear?, idle bleed hole clear?
Perhaps the butterfly shaft / bushings worn? Sorry I dont have any new ideas but I think you were in the right area when you started...
Bob

[TrueLyFE]

Hey pentabob.

The throttle body is actually in very good condition. Butterfly valve works fine and is totally clean now. The idle hole was cleaned out (wasn't clogged, however).

I am pointing at a bad head gasket right now. I haven't checked the coolant leve / condition; I will check it later today and see if it looks like the gasket is shot.

[TrueLyFE]

This morning, I checked the timing belt just in case a cam was off. Everything is lined up fine.

Also, during the week I checked the coolant. Seems to be at the proper level, isn't bubbling and doesn't have oil in it. The oil also doesn't seem to have coolant in it.

Basically, whatever the problem is right now, I don't care - this vehicle was a total waste of my time and money. Unless someone has something else to chime in with, this vehicle will be considered a total loss and I will try to find another vehicle before my insurance and registration is up on my current vehicle (won't pass smog in this county).

[ronmar1]

Try this. It won't cost you any thing! Just a small amount of time.

Pull the distributor cap, Twist the rotor button back and forth and see if there is any loose motion of the rotor on the shaft. I had one once that had worn on the shaft, just enough to throw the timing out a bit, it wouldn't idle but would run. Check the cap and rotor for wear or cracks while there also.

Ron

[TrueLyFE]

Hey Ron.

The cap and rotor are new. There isn't any play in the rotor.

I'll be checking the compression soon, just for the hell of it. I'll probably go along and do a head job and new injectors, since that's about the only thing that could really be wrong at this point, but the compression thing would verify at least the heads. It'll be like a new car after that, I suppose...

[TrueLyFE]

Hey all. Just an update.

Completed a head swap and new injectors, and the idle problem is gone. I am having some injector code problems now (code 27, rough idle and hard to start but has power and seems fine under throttle), but it drives fine.

Thanks for your help.

[TrueLyFE]

Hey all. Just wanted to post resolution to this thread.

I finished the head and injector swap about two weeks ago, and finally got the van registered this weekend. Just timed it the best I could and set the idle throttle, and it drives beautifully. The front and rear crank seals have very minor leaks... couple drops per day... should have done the front one while everything was apart but I'm going to have to take it apart for another reason anyway, so not much of a bother.

So yes, again, it runs fantastic now. Thanks all.