Australian GP 2007 - Page 2

Dyno247365 · #16 03-25-2007, 02:32 PM

That was INSANE when Raikkonnen passed Massa. The debut of the Ferrari ice man went without a hitch, that's for sure but the racing wasn't as exciting because there wasn't a lot of fighting.

DinanM3_S2 · #17 03-25-2007, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyno247365

That was INSANE when Raikkonnen passed Massa.

Kimi passed Massa? What race were you watching? Kimi never even saw Massa. Kimi didn't pass anyone that he wasn't lapping. He was ahead the entire race except between pit stops.

Dyno247365 · #18 03-26-2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

Kimi passed Massa? What race were you watching? Kimi never even saw Massa. Kimi didn't pass anyone that he wasn't lapping. He was ahead the entire race except between pit stops.

Okay my terminology stands corrected, he 'lapped' Massa. It was incredibly insane when he lapped Massa.

DinanM3_S2 · #19 03-26-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyno247365

Okay my terminology stands corrected, he 'lapped' Massa. It was incredibly insane when he lapped Massa.

But Massa finished on the lead lap... I honestly don't remember Massa being lapped, but it was probably between Massa's only stop and Kimi's second stop. The only reason Massa was so slow was because of traffic. Don't look to far into this race to tell the difference between the two drivers. Wait for them to line up next to each other.

Dyno247365 · #20 03-26-2007, 03:06 PM

It happened at 21 laps to go of the race, Raikkonen lapped Massa, I don't know which turn but it was a right hander into another right hander into a lefthander...if that helps. He just flew by him. I don't know much about F1 yet but I think something was up with the 2nd Ferrari, not just traffic.

DinanM3_S2 · #21 03-26-2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyno247365

It happened at 21 laps to go of the race, Raikkonen lapped Massa, I don't know which turn but it was a right hander into another right hander into a lefthander...if that helps. He just flew by him. I don't know much about F1 yet but I think something was up with the 2nd Ferrari, not just traffic.

I think you must have confused a Spyker, Red Bull, or Toro Rosso for Massa's Ferrari. Massa's car didn't have any problems at all during the race.

Also, in F1 there is a blue flag rule. If there is a car on the lead lap behind a car that is about to be lapped, they stewards wave a blue flag signaling for the slower driver to allow the faster one to pass. They do this to minimize slower driver's effect on the race. So lapping a car isn't really that big of a deal.

Dyno247365 · #22 03-26-2007, 08:10 PM

I'm saying his car was slower, not that it was going to crash. You're attributing his...did he get 8th(?) place win to only traffic, which was caused by a technicality in qualifying, right? I'm saying he was handicapped because of the car at that given time. Still, Kimi did a HELL of a job and fully deserved his blisteringly fast win.

What was the last car that Kimi didn't lap? Let's look at it that way, and how fast the car is compared to the Ferraris.

DinanM3_S2 · #23 03-26-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyno247365

I'm saying his car was slower, not that it was going to crash. You're attributing his...did he get 8th(?) place win to only traffic, which was caused by a technicality in qualifying, right? I'm saying he was handicapped because of the car at that given time. Still, Kimi did a HELL of a job and fully deserved his blisteringly fast win.

What was the last car that Kimi didn't lap? Let's look at it that way, and how fast the car is compared to the Ferraris.

http://www.formula1.com/archive/grandprix/2007/770.html

F1's website keeps a pretty good record of all races. As you can see in the time/retired column, Massa is the last driver with a recorded time. After him, the rest of the drivers show +1 lap, +2 laps, or a reason they retired. F1 doesn't record the times for lapped drivers, and since Massa is recorded, he wasn't lapped. Massa was the last driver not to be lapped and Nico Rosberg was the last driver to be lapped.

I'm not trying to say that Kimi didn't deserve to win. He clearly did. His car was significantly faster then the rest of the field. What I'm saying is that Massa was never lapped and that he would have been at least competitive with Kimi had his gearbox/engine broken down in qualifying.

Dyno247365 · #24 03-26-2007, 09:08 PM

Then answer this, seriously, why does the race(tv) show Raikkonen passing Massa for the first time in the race if he wasn't getting lapped? My question is what did I see? I'm gonna go double check again.

Dyno247365 · #25 03-26-2007, 09:27 PM

Now explain this!!

DinanM3_S2 · #26 03-26-2007, 10:14 PM

Ok, I think I figured it out. Massa was on a 1 stop pit strategy and Kimi was on a 2 stopper. 21 laps to go would have been right in between Massa's only stop (lap 29) and Kimi's second stop (lap 42). There is a significant difference in speed between a car that is heavy on fuel and a car that is light on fuel. Massa would of had 21 laps of fuel left in his tank while Kimi would of had about 5-6. The reason Kimi wasn't really lapping Massa was that Kimi had to pit again and Massa didn't, so you might as well of added another 25 seconds or so to Kimi's time while Massa was good for the rest of the race. Massa would of also been blue flagged to allow Kimi to pass easily.

Think of it like this. Hamilton was in 1st place for a little while, but it didn't mean anything because he hadn't pitted and Kimi had.

Dyno247365 · #27 03-26-2007, 10:31 PM

Come to think of it, 2 pit stops is a really good idea if you're a hotlapper, because you don't carry as much fuel and use that to your advantage.

DinanM3_S2 · #28 03-27-2007, 12:17 AM

Most teams generally run a two stop strategy. The times on less fuel generally make up for the extra stop. There is also a fuel concern for qualifying. Cars that are eliminated in the first 2 rounds are able to put as much or as little fuel in the car as they want, but if you make it to the last round you have to qualify with the same fuel you start the race with. Pole position is very important in F1, especially at tracks like Monaco, so many people will qualify light and pit a little earlier in the hopes of starting further up the grid. Massa would have been on a two stopper had he started from the front few rows.

The exception to the 2 stop strategy is when a faster car is stuck in the back, like Massa in Australia. On-track passing in F1 is very difficult, and you'll see in Massa's times that he was slowed down significantly by cars in the back (like the Hondas). The Ferrari was fast enough to keep up with and pass the slower cars like the Hondas and Red Bulls even with more fuel on board. By going to a 1 stop strategy, Massa was able to pass a bunch of the slower cars while they were in the pits. Once he had some open space in front of him, he was able to put down much faster times and catch up with the front runners. Had he been on a 2 stop strategy, he would of had to pass more cars on the track, which probably would have resulted in a lower finishing place.

Iceman Kimi · #29 03-29-2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyno247365

I'm saying his car was slower, not that it was going to crash. You're attributing his...did he get 8th(?) place win to only traffic, which was caused by a technicality in qualifying, right? I'm saying he was handicapped because of the car at that given time. Still, Kimi did a HELL of a job and fully deserved his blisteringly fast win.

What was the last car that Kimi didn't lap? Let's look at it that way, and how fast the car is compared to the Ferraris.

Dyno,Massa was slower cause he have almost 80-90kg of fuel more of kimi and mounting soft tires in the first stint.

in this track,the soft bridgestone's have big problems of duration...and the ferrari,with an incredible (and so long

) chassis is able to minimize the problems with the soft tyres...

was impossible,in the Felipe's Race,to achieve a very fast lap.
kimi otherwise,in the first part of the race,was forced to push to take distance from the McLaren's...

and he do very well...after 15 laps he just controlled the race...

to have a comparison,i think we must wait a GP when Massa starts in 1/2 row...

in the Malaysian's tests,kimi was faster than the others for half a second...

but in maranello the engineers are quite scared cause kimi's car,in the australian GP,have a little problem with cooling system and lost 1/3 of the water...

probably the engine have to be changed (and 10 position loss) but Ferrari have a good top speed and the Sepang's track have 2 long straights and close corners at the end,quite a good point to overtake...

sorry for my bad english...

Dyno247365 · #30 03-29-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman Kimi

sorry for my bad english...

As long as you know your **** I don't mind. It was pretty good anyway. "He did very well" and "fuel more than kimi".

I do want to see what Massa can really do, even though i have so much respect for Kimi right now. Then again, Mclaren is going to kick some ass too.

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