A twist on "why do you believe?"

[Ian Szgatti]

Originally Posted by hotrod_chevyz

I believe in one christian god. I believe his son is named jesus. I know if you believe in some other god or religion, your risking your eternity.

For the most part tho, i believe most religious cultures fight over who has the best imaginary friend. If you think your god causes tornadoes or earthquakes or some stupid crap like that, be prepared to burn in hell.

Wow... your God basically sent Chriss Angel down to mindfreak everyone, and when they didnt take him seriously he drowned everyone. I have heard many christians say that everything happens for a reason because it's Gods plan. Well... that includes tornadoes and earthquakes... FYI, how do you even know YOUR God is THE God? You don't, you just have faith. It would be a better idea not to denounce anybodies God. Think about it... if you were from the middle east you may be denouncing your current God anyway. Religion is relative.
I really don't feel it's worth putting effort into what God is real. We have clearly outlined the ways in which we can treat eachother well... if we stick to that, how can we go wrong.

[hotrod_chevyz]

Originally Posted by Ian Szgatti

Wow... your God basically sent Chriss Angel down to mindfreak everyone, and when they didnt take him seriously he drowned everyone. I have heard many christians say that everything happens for a reason because it's Gods plan. Well... that includes tornadoes and earthquakes... FYI, how do you even know YOUR God is THE God? You don't, you just have faith. It would be a better idea not to denounce anybodies God. Think about it... if you were from the middle east you may be denouncing your current God anyway. Religion is relative.
I really don't feel it's worth putting effort into what God is real. We have clearly outlined the ways in which we can treat eachother well... if we stick to that, how can we go wrong.

treat each other well...right now cultures exist that believe they are religiously justified to come kill me and my family JUST BECAUSE the god i choose to believe in. Sould i accept and respect this?

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by hotrod_chevyz

Sould i accept and respect this?

YES.
It makes you the better man, if you happen to really believe in your God, and his moral teachings, it is what you should do.
Thou shalt not kill. Dick head.

Those of us with more rational beliefs however, have every right IMO to try and defent ourselves if they do decied to attack us. We don't of course have any right to attack them first.
Fortunatly the vast, vast majority of people with anykind of religeous belief are quite peaceful about it. Its only a small number who are a little power crazed who like to use thie religion as an excuess to be violent.

[Jay!]

Originally Posted by hotrod_chevyz

I believe in one christian god. I believe his son is named jesus. I know if you believe in some other god or religion, your risking your eternity.

For the most part tho, i believe most religious cultures fight over who has the best imaginary friend. If you think your god causes tornadoes or earthquakes or some stupid crap like that, be prepared to burn in hell.

But you didn't answer the "why" part...

Why do you believe in one christian god?
Why do you believe his son is named jesus?
How did you come to know that if you believe in some other god or religion, your risking your eternity?

Originally Posted by hotrod_chevyz

treat each other well...right now cultures exist that believe they are religiously justified to come kill me and my family JUST BECAUSE the god i choose to believe in. Sould i accept and respect this?

That's beside the point of this thread. Surely you don't believe how you believe because other people would persecute you for it. Or do you?

[hotrod_chevyz]

1: because i can.

2: because i can.

3: Because thats what the bible says.

Im not going to set here and get called names, or argue with council mods. Believe what you want to. Im done with this thread.

BTW people have the right to defend themselves, no matter how "rational" others think their beliefs are. Killing over religion is stupid, arguing over religion is stupid. If anything i said constitutes being called names or having what i said picked apart, then so be it. Pick away.

[Ian Szgatti]

Originally Posted by hotrod_chevyz

BTW people have the right to defend themselves,

you shouldnt haev been called names, i agree.

now see the problem with religion.. we arent individual countries and we're already at war. It's time to evolve fella's... maybe to the brotherhood of shut the fuck up and be nice to your nieghbour...
isnt it after all the primary idea... to be moral? I can do that without threats of burning for eternity because I like to be moral. For those that choose to be selfish and use us moral peoples... thats what jail or death is for.
Let there be no doubt, it isnt jail or death that keeps me in line. Its me... all me

[thrasher]

Originally Posted by Ian Szgatti

you shouldnt haev been called names, i agree.

now see the problem with religion.. we arent individual countries and we're already at war. It's time to evolve fella's... maybe to the brotherhood of shut the fuck up and be nice to your nieghbour...
isnt it after all the primary idea... to be moral? I can do that without threats of burning for eternity because I like to be moral. For those that choose to be selfish and use us moral peoples... thats what jail or death is for.
Let there be no doubt, it isnt jail or death that keeps me in line. Its me... all me

I agree, and I think that you would find a significantly higher level of integrity and "moral", consistent behavior among non-religious groups. All of the atheists I know act with a much higher level of integrity and morality than many of the devout Christians I know

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by hotrod_chevyz

Im not going to set here and get called names, or argue with council mods. Believe what you want to. Im done with this thread.

That was sarcasim lost in the religion, not ment to offend.
And don't get put off by the titles under our names, certianly don't let it stop you expressing your opinions, they are all valid regardless of how others feel about them

[Jay!]

Originally Posted by hotrod_chevyz

Im not going to set here and get called names, or argue with council mods. Believe what you want to. Im done with this thread.

It is unfortunate that you do not wish to continue this discussion, but I will post my further questions anyway, and perhaps other members will contribute their answers...

Originally Posted by hotrod_chevyz

1: because i can.

2: because i can.

These are non-answers. Again, it is unfortunate you would enter this duscussion, then refuse to respond to further inquiry. If you don't care to answer me, that's fine, but I hope you will at least be honest with yourself as to the "why" of your beliefs.

However, even your non-answers beg a question:

Does a person ever really choose what to believe?

Borrowing from the wikipedia:
"Belief is usually defined as a conviction of the truth of a proposition without its verification; therefore a belief is a subjective mental interpretation derived from perceptions, contemplation (reasoning), or communication."

So, then, does a person have full control over their how they percieve, how they reason and how they communicate?

Furthermore, does a person have control over the process by which their collection of perceptions, reasonings and communications form beliefs?

This may be a topic worthy of its own thread, but still... Figured it's worth a shot.

Originally Posted by hotrod_chevyz

3: Because thats what the bible says.

That must be the New Testament, then? Which version? Which translation?

How do you feel about the Tanakh? And how about the Qur'an? And the Book of Mormon? Have you considered the validity of the Apocrypha or any of the other deuterocanonical books?

Originally Posted by hotrod_chevyz

BTW people have the right to defend themselves, no matter how "rational" others think their beliefs are. Killing over religion is stupid, arguing over religion is stupid. If anything i said constitutes being called names or having what i said picked apart, then so be it. Pick away.

You posted in a discussion thread in a philosophy forum. You posted about your beliefs and made assertions based upon them.

Argument is an amazingly useful logical tool. There is no inherent harm in argument.

[Ian Szgatti]

Originally Posted by Jay!

Furthermore, does a person have control over the process by which their collection of perceptions, reasonings and communications form beliefs?

Maybe not. Strong evidence suggests we are driven by an unconcious thought process. If so, we undoubtedly pre-determine which ideals will best suite our needs.
For myself, past experiance has made me particularly sensitive to being threatened, therfore anyone who threatens me in spite of my own personal desire for morality is counteractive of my ideal.
Question remains though, do I controll that.

The interesting thing is that I have now asked this question within myself. Now that I am fully aware that I could potentially control this predisposed tendancy to retract from those who threaten, can I then accept God and live under the threat of hell.
Well, I choose no. Not because of my past; but because upon using a concious logical adult thining process I still find it morally wrong to threaten people to suit your own ideals.

Remember self preservation though, I eliminate that thinking when it comes to law. Those who break it ought to be threatened because it is more logical to save us than to ebrace our logical ideal to the point where we let people run around and do whatever wrong they want. Logic.

Sorry about this post, hope I made a clear point in adressing Jays question

[MonsterBengt]

Without even taking the time to read the other comments, the plain simple answer is that you believe what you feel comfortable with. Religion is born through the lack of answers to the questions that cannot be answered without questioning; What happens after death?, why is there a world, universe, reality? The human brain almost literally fries at the rate of curousity and just has to know. Then some guy comes up with a brilliant idea; People hate, kill and steal.. How do I stop this? well i tell them how to live in harmony with your surroundings yadayada. But why would they obey those rules? Ofcourse, I give them unquestionable answers to the unanswerable questions and that they will be greatly awarded if following these rules (wich they will when everone is loving everyone), and when they die, they won't be able to get mad at me for lying about the answers, because they're dead.

And then there are people who are happy with the fact that these questions cannot be answered, and use my life philosophy; It doesn't matter.

[Ian Szgatti]

Originally Posted by MonsterBengt

Religion is born through the lack of answers to the questions that cannot be answered without questioning;

Religion is born out of my need to scare you out of stealing my bread. Fear is all that tamed us and continues to do so. From that fear, mankind settled somewhat and focused there attention on matters not related to defence and survival, like why is the sky blue and how did the universe start.

[MonsterBengt]

OMG

Originally Posted by hotrod_chevyz

treat each other well...right now cultures exist that believe they are religiously justified to come kill me and my family JUST BECAUSE the god i choose to believe in. Sould i accept and respect this?

Just what freaking religion are you suggesting that'd be? Islam? Whatever it is, they are NOT following their religion, and you're not doing that either.

1: because i can.

2: because i can.

3: Because thats what the bible says.

Im not going to set here and get called names, or argue with council mods. Believe what you want to. Im done with this thread.

BTW people have the right to defend themselves, no matter how "rational" others think their beliefs are. Killing over religion is stupid, arguing over religion is stupid. If anything i said constitutes being called names or having what i said picked apart, then so be it. Pick away.

Ever thought of the concept of MAKING YOUR OWN MIND UP? Instead of conform to an already existing religion since 2007 years back, made up by those who claimed the world was flat, the sun circled around the earth, the people who has killed more people than the plague, nazism and communism together throughout the years? Ofcourse what you say will be picked apart, It's prejudicing and ignorant. I hope your kind will be a victim to an inquisition of atleast half the terror the 17th century lol-christians lead. WWJD-what would Jesus do? I'll tell you what he'd do, he'd RESPECT other religions, tell people to live well and love each other and don't bother that much about weather or not they've been good people so far and by God not care about how good OTHER people is. Since you've clearly missed out the whole point with everything Jesus said, who your religion is named after, I'd say GET EDUCATED.

Originally Posted by hotrod_chevyz

I believe in one christian god. I believe his son is named jesus. I know if you believe in some other god or religion, your risking your eternity.

For the most part tho, i believe most religious cultures fight over who has the best imaginary friend. If you think your god causes tornadoes or earthquakes or some stupid crap like that, be prepared to burn in hell.

You selfrighteus snowed in fascist.

Originally Posted by Ian Szgatti

Religion is born out of my need to scare you out of stealing my bread. Fear is all that tamed us and continues to do so. From that fear, mankind settled somewhat and focused there attention on matters not related to defence and survival, like why is the sky blue and how did the universe start.

I think both fear and curiosity goes hand in hand on this matter. You're really curious of what'll happen after death, and are really scared it'll be something bad and create a comforting belief that says you'll get to heaven. And then someone who wants people to act good to eachother in the meantime, says you'll go to hell if you don't. And then people like above, tell people they'll go to hell because they're different.

[hotrod_chevyz]

Originally Posted by MonsterBengt

Ever thought of the concept of MAKING YOUR OWN MIND UP? .

Nope...never heard of it.

Originally Posted by MonsterBengt

GET EDUCATED.

You yourself need to educate. Dont presume that you know what another man knows about his own religion. You dont know me like that, simple as that.

Originally Posted by MonsterBengt

You selfrighteus snowed in fascist.

Oh yeah an inch of snow is really snowed in... And to whom does your opinion matter, if i may ask?

Originally Posted by MonsterBengt

I think both fear and curiosity goes hand in hand on this matter. You're really curious of what'll happen after death, and are really scared it'll be something bad and create a comforting belief that says you'll get to heaven.

That sounds more like your own fear and curiosity, not mine.

Originally Posted by MonsterBengt

And then someone who wants people to act good to eachother in the meantime, says you'll go to hell if you don't.

You dont get to heaven by acts alone. But yeah if you run around killing people over religion, you go to hell.

Originally Posted by MonsterBengt

And then people like above, tell people they'll go to hell because they're different.

If you believe in a god other than the true god then you will go to hell. Not because you are "different". Thats more like because your "stupid".

Im too busy today to even start on this thread... maybe tomorrow i will yank some chains here

[MonsterBengt]

I saw some comments on comments, no arguments. Try again fascist.