no electrical on key turn - buzz under dash

[djohnsoniv]

I'm frustrated and dreading the worst!!! Please help me.

I went home for lunch last week and when I got back in my 98 Grand Caravan it would not turn. nothing happened. after further inspection I found that when I turn on the internal lights (using fly wheel for dimming panel and turning on internal lights), there was a buzzing sound under the dash in the under-dash fuse box. so i tested with hazards and the buzzing sounded as if the lights were flashing, but they were not. same thing with door locks. when I turned on the headlights, buzzing actually occured in the fuse box in the engine compartment (next to battery).

What's going on?

I asked the local Autozone rep if they had an idea and the mgr told me that if i take one of the other relays from the same line as the one that was buzzing at "key turn", and put it in its place, it should work. if it does not, then it is not the relay. I tried jump starting it...no luck. it seems that electrical is trying to work but can't get going b/c of somthing buzzing in the fuse box. my guess is that the relays are trying but cannot so they buzz.

Battery is only 2 months old.

any and all help is greatly appreciated.

--dave

[RIP]

First step is take the battery back to where you bought it, get it charged and have them perform a load test. New battery or not chattering or buzzing relays is an indication of a low current flow. The first suspect is the battery. This will also tell you if you have a shorted cell in the battery.

Short of that, barrow a known good battery from someone and give it a try. Check the battery terminal and chassy ground connections for corrosion and security.

[djohnsoniv]

RIP,

Thanks for the advice. That will be the first thing I try. Now, if the battery is drained and they don't find anything wrong with the battery, could this mean a bad alternator? also, how can I make sure that they test for bad cells and other things within the battery? thanks.

--dave

[RIP]

Usually a battery won't charge if a cell is shorted. They will know right away. If not then it will definitely fail the load test.

Bad alternator? Yes it could be. The only way I know of to check an alternator without dismantling it is with it running. You may not have that option so...Autozone or any similar store will bench test it for you. Of course that means removing it. If when you put the battery back in after charging or replacing you get it to start, here's a quick alternator test. Start the car and connect a multimeter across the battery terminals. You should be getting 13.5 -14.5 vdc. That indicates the alternator is suppling enough voltage to the battery to charge it.

Another possibility is a system is slowly draining your battery while the van sits. We'll get to that when and if the time comes.

If you barrow a known good battery and you still have the problem it would save you a few trips.

[djohnsoniv]

OK,

recharged the battery. it was definitely drained, but tested fine afterward.

now, when i turn the key, there is a clicking in the engine. sounds like it's trying to fire, but there is no engine at all...just a firing/loud clicking sound.

I think this is beyond my abilities. does this sound like an alternator issue. i was told that the alt. diode might be bad and draining the battery. I have removed a cable from one of the posts to avoid this problem, if it truly exists.

ARG!!!

thanks for all your help!!

--dave

[RIP]

I am assuming by "tested fine afterwords" you mean the load test was good. A battery can have a full charge, read 12 vdc and still fail a load test.

Normally the alternator won't keep the car from starting, but it could be creating a dead short to ground. If that were the case you would have other indications but, just to CYA try disconnecting the wires to the alternator and starting it. Disconnect the battery before the alternator.

If all your relay chattering is gone and all you hear when you turn the key is a click under the hood then you have a starter issue and likely a bad starter solenoid. The solenoid is part of the starter. First make sure it's the starter that is clicking. It's on the bottom of the engine slightly towards the drivers side (on a 3.3 or 3.8 ltr engine). The majority of it is an 8 inch long cylinder with two wire connections on it. You can either rebuild the starter or replace it. Just as with the alternator, you can have the starter tested at Autozone or a similar store. If you decide to remove the starter make sure the connections are tight and not corroded first. Disconnect the battery first unless you like fireworks displays.

The above steps will give you a good indication of the starter condition, however, it's best to confirm a full 12vdc is getting to the starter from the starter relay. On the starter you should get 12 vdc at the connection with the small diameter wire (green?) with the key turned to start. You should get 12vdc at the connection with the large diameter wire (red?) with the key on or off.

If you want to see if the alternator is draining your battery disconnect the positive lead (red) of the battery and connect an ammeter between the disconnected cable and the positive battery post. A reading higher than around 50 milliamps means the alternator or something is draining the battery.

If all this is greek to you, just try tapping the starter with a hammer with the key turned to start. This simple test could be all you need. If it starts, you need to have the starter replaced. Make sure you are in park with the parking brake set.

[djohnsoniv]

OK. I will check to see if the "clicking" is coming from the starter.

just to note... after I put the recharged battery in, I tried the headlights and I get a buzzing noise from the relay in the engine compartment fuse box. that can't be the starter...unless the starter relay is causing problems with the headlight relay... is that possible?

thanks for all your help!!! I really do appreciate it and am always willing to and wanting to learn new things.

--dave

[vipergg]

Originally Posted by djohnsoniv

OK. I will check to see if the "clicking" is coming from the starter.

just to note... after I put the recharged battery in, I tried the headlights and I get a buzzing noise from the relay in the engine compartment fuse box. that can't be the starter...unless the starter relay is causing problems with the headlight relay... is that possible?

thanks for all your help!!! I really do appreciate it and am always willing to and wanting to learn new things.

--dave

this still sounds like a low voltage problem , not enough juice to run anything . Have you checked the battery cables for any corrosion . I would get a good battery terminal brush and thoroughly rough up the battery terminal posts and then clean and rough up the insides of the battery cable connectors themselves ,sometimes the connectors can develop a almost invisible high resistance coating on them which will look like a bad battery , had this happen on a 96 and haven't had another problem since I did it . Get the battery posts and the inside of the connectors so they are shiney , the brush basically takes off a small layer of the material and will give you good connections between the battery and the connector.

[nixonrules]

I agree with Viper. Sounds like a possible ground problem and the first place I would look is the battery cables. Even if the connectors look OK, corrosion could have crept up the cable. Inspect and clean the connections to the battery carefully and look for any sign of corrosion on the cable (bulging, cracking, whitish film, etc.)