Engine redline...

[Steel]

Originally Posted by UncleBob

that is not what he's suggesting grey. What he's saying is, to put it simply, the highest average HP per RPM range for a gear, will cause the highest acceleration for a given vehicle.

If city driving = highest HP at lowest RPM possible, then everyone would be driving diesels.

There is a wide variety of vehicles and engines to chose from on the market. I don't like low-reving engines personally. There is disadvantages with any configuration. Low reving = low HP/L. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

That's why everyone drives diesels in Europe. It's better for city type driving because of the torque low down. Remember, people buy horsepower but drive torque. I like low revvers (except for 7's), because i hate having to wind out a motor to get anywhere, its annoying. I wish i had a VW diesel, those are soo easy to drive its great. It's easy to forget that they only make 90 horsepower when you have 155 torques at your disposal.

[UncleBob]

Originally Posted by Steel

people buy horsepower but drive torque.

only people that don't comprehend the relationship of hp and torque anyway.

Didn't we already hash this out somewhere else?

Europeans like diesels because of their efficiency first, due to the high fuel costs there IMO. Something that will catch on real quick in the US if gas prices continue to rise.

[Steel]

AND the fact that they're easier to drive because they have all the low end torque. Torquey cars FEEL fast because of the same lowend torque. That's why V8's FEEL faster than rotaries, even if the rotary is faster.
example. RX-8 vs thunderbird supercoupe (not a v8, but i digress). RX-8 = 238hp, 159tq. SC = 200hp, 318tq. Guess which one feels faster off the line? Guess which one you have to wind out to eleventybillion RPM to get anywhere? Guess which one wins in a race?

In my racecar, i want a high-revvin, screamin' snortin' powerhouse.
In my DD, i want a slow turning, quiet, torquer.

[UncleBob]

Well, as long as you feel like you're accelerating quickly, thats all that matters I guess

My daily driver is a 9 second 1/4 mile turbo'd motorcycle. And it rev's to 11.5K rpm's. Its horrible. It feels really really slow due to the redline.

Not.

[2.2 Straight six]

Originally Posted by Steel

That's why everyone drives diesels in Europe. It's better for city type driving because of the torque low down. Remember, people buy horsepower but drive torque.

No, people over here drive them becasuse they have such good fuel economy, and no one has anything against them. unlike the US where it seems you get some stick from other people for driving a diesel car.

don't go thinking everyone here has diesels, they're more commen but there are still more petrol cars on the roads. i think germany/france/spain probably have the most diesels on the road, in UK there are plenty of them, but there are far more petrol cars around.

[UncleBob]

I would be curious what the ratio is. In the US, the number of cars with diesel engines is nearly non-existant. The VW TDI is the only recent car that is selling well.

About the only place you see diesels are large american pickup trucks, I would guess around 25% of them are diesel. 6000-7000 pound trucks getting 18-20 mpg. Thats almost as good as my crappy little 4 banger ranger truck.

[Steel]

Originally Posted by UncleBob

Well, as long as you feel like you're accelerating quickly, thats all that matters I guess

My daily driver is a 9 second 1/4 mile turbo'd motorcycle. And it rev's to 11.5K rpm's. Its horrible. It feels really really slow due to the redline.

Not.

Sarcasm is not needed, especially when you're comparing a 300 pound bike to a 3300 pound car. Obviously torque is not a huge factor for bikes. Even then, torqier bikes (v-twins) *feel* faster than high revving bikes (4 cylinders). And guess what, the V-twins are easier to drive than the 16k revvers. Simple truth.

*edit* and that's the reason that a good portion of RX-8 owners were dissappointed with the performance of the car. Sure it had 238 hp, but it certainly didnt feel like that. It would constantly push you back in your seat, but 'neck-snapping' torque describes it not.

[Steel]

Originally Posted by UncleBob

I would be curious what the ratio is. In the US, the number of cars with diesel engines is nearly non-existant. The VW TDI is the only recent car that is selling well.

About the only place you see diesels are large american pickup trucks, I would guess around 25% of them are diesel. 6000-7000 pound trucks getting 18-20 mpg. Thats almost as good as my crappy little 4 banger ranger truck.

http://www.dieselnet.com/news/2004/12bosch.php

[UncleBob]

I think what you're "feeling" moreso is the power curve. Turbo diesels have a very abrupt power hit when the turbo spools, where as your example, the RX7 didn't have any "curve" worth mentioning since it was dead flat.

Due to diesels low reving engine, the gearing is greatly raised (lowered numerically) which counteracts applying the extra ft/lb's to the rear wheel. As far as your run-of-the-mill diesel, I've yet to drive one that did anything for me. Thats just me I guess.

I'm not trying to argue that more torque doesn't feel faster. If you take any vehicle and double its torque, it will feel way faster. That is obvious.

[Steel]

WEll i tell you, i was impressed when i was in the VW on the highway. Got stuck behind a truck at 55mph. To pass him, i just got in the left lane and pushed to go pedal, no downshifting silliness. I was also impressed with its hill-climbing ability. 30-35mph in 4th gear up a fairly steep hill is no sweat.