Turbo Questions

[david-b]

Yeah, that's right, Mr. 420a himself has some turbo questions.

My car is losing power somewhere and tomorrow I'm going to figure out where. It's pretty much well across the board, but lower and higher rpms are suffering the most. The mids are perfect, but the rest sucks. So I've got to change my oil tomorrow, then I'm going to hook up the logger and retune, see if I can tell where I'm losing power.

Now, I'm thinking (only thinking) of possible getting a turbo. All I want is something just to give a little boost or push for the car. I was thinking something really small, like a t25? I'm also thinking a very small FMIC then too with all hard pipes. Any other small turbos?

I've been seeing these come up on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/95-99...41629735QQrdZ1
Are these legit or worth it? I know the manifold doesn't come with, but you are getting a lot there. What do you think?

Also, are all turbos oiled? Like do I need to run a line from the oil pan to the turbo no matter what I get?

So what do you guys think? This will be after I finish the head (early next year). To break it down, I just want something small to push the engine a little more. Not looking for BIG and all out. I still want to keep the fuel system the same (fuel cut not a problem). Should I piece a system together with used parts?

[defiancy]

Originally Posted by david-b

Yeah, that's right, Mr. 420a himself has some turbo questions.

My car is losing power somewhere and tomorrow I'm going to figure out where. It's pretty much well across the board, but lower and higher rpms are suffering the most. The mids are perfect, but the rest sucks. So I've got to change my oil tomorrow, then I'm going to hook up the logger and retune, see if I can tell where I'm losing power.

Now, I'm thinking (only thinking) of possible getting a turbo. All I want is something just to give a little boost or push for the car. I was thinking something really small, like a t25? I'm also thinking a very small FMIC then too with all hard pipes. Any other small turbos?

I've been seeing these come up on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/95-99...41629735QQrdZ1
Are these legit or worth it? I know the manifold doesn't come with, but you are getting a lot there. What do you think?

Also, are all turbos oiled? Like do I need to run a line from the oil pan to the turbo no matter what I get?

So what do you guys think? This will be after I finish the head (early next year). To break it down, I just want something small to push the engine a little more. Not looking for BIG and all out. I still want to keep the fuel system the same (fuel cut not a problem). Should I piece a system together with used parts?

A T-25 could work well for your car. You would only be able to run low boost but it would probably be safe enough to get a decent amount of power out of it.

Also you probably wouldn't need a front mount with a t-25 it's just going to flow to much for that small turbo. You would be better off with just a stock side mount.

You could go for either a t-25 or a 14b.

And yes you are going to have to tap the pan for the turbo.

You shouldn't really look at those kits, when you can probably piece together a kit from stock mitsu stuff that would do just fine for your application. It wouldn't perhaps be the prettiest kit ever but it would be functional and reliable.

Definately going to have to upgrade the fuel system for the turbo though.

[Thor06]

Wow.

I wouldnt get a T25, you wont be making a whole lot more power than you already are and the ceiling is like 230ish hp. I would get a 14b or a small 16g, both spool super early and wont blow your balls out on power. Yes, all turbos are oiled but not all run coolant. Even ones that do run coolant can (and have been with both success and failure) run "dry" or with no coolant. You probably should get your oil from right off the filter housing if there is a plug to unscrew like there is on 4g63 cars, but I think drilling/tapping the oil pan is about the only way to get oil out of it. I would use SS line for each. I would go used, but thats just me. For a originally NT car to run boost, I would only run like 5-8 lbs and I dont know for sure, but I would imagine your stock fuel system could handle that. If not, you can get a set of 450's for like $50 (I've got two sets). Actually, my advice would be to get the 450s anyway. Good luck man, doing your research now is the right way to do it so you know exactly what to do when the time comes.

[david-b]

Thanks guys. I know I won't able able to boost more than 9psi. Block won't be able to handle it. The head is going to be nice and strong, all ready for boost, but I don't want problems on the lower end. I'mm thinking 5-6psi is where I'm going to be resting at. Again, I'm not looking for much power, just a little push.

Anyone got any parts laying around?

[Thor06]

Hmmm, things I have that might interest you...

450cc injectors (2 sets) $50 per set
1g bov $30
SMIC (2) $25

I wouldnt be able to get them until thanksgiving, but you dont seem to be in much hurry.

[david-b]

Cool. So total, how much do you think I'll be looking at to spend? No hurry with me. Want to get the head done first. That's my winter project. Turbo will be spring/summer project.

You think even a small FMIC will be too much? IDK what turbo I'm looking at yet. Something small and cheap. But like one of those really little FMICs would still be too much?

[Mikelb]

I suggest running 6 psi... I think the t25 or 14b would be fine... ebay has manifolds that will work (~$200)...

The stock 450's from a turbo won't work (IIRC) they are low resistance while the NA cars have High resistance (or is it impedance) or something like that... I've been there looked at that... that's why I sold my NA...

The stock motors can handle approx 8-10psi (275-290 crank hp), but at a/b 300hp the stock rods turn to butter and bend...
The cranks are fine, but I'd suggest (if you plan on running it for a long time, or as a daily driver) to put new rods (and possibly new pistons, depends on the amount of boost)...

I don't wish to put too much more into this, as I have been discouraged from doing it and wanted to make you aware of the "problem" areas... it is yoour money and your car, do as you wish and don't let anyone discourage you, but also don't blow off information/experience...

Good Luck, keep me posted

[Mikelb]

Originally Posted by david-b

Cool. So total, how much do you think I'll be looking at to spend? No hurry with me. Want to get the head done first. That's my winter project. Turbo will be spring/summer project.

You think even a small FMIC will be too much? IDK what turbo I'm looking at yet. Something small and cheap. But like one of those really little FMICs would still be too much?

oh, and I looked at Hahn's Stage II kit, and used it as a blue print... I had pieced together a 1-off kit that was equivalent, if not better, for a/b $1k...

[Thor06]

FMIC or SMIC is sort of a tough call. A small FMIC would work too and may be your better option because it seems easier to mount to me. A SMIC should cool sufficiently though.

You have to remember though, 8-10 psi is not going to equate to 275-290 crank hp on that those little turbos. 2g turbo cars came from the factory with 8.5:1 pistons and running ~14 pounds of boost and were rated at what, 210 hp? Yes the compression ratio of the 420a is higher than that of the 4g63 but at a minimum of 4 lbs of boost less I cant imagine you would see any more power than a stock 2g turbo. I would think 8-10 lbs on a 420a would make like 180-190 to the wheels on a t25 which is why I suggested a 14b or small 16g. You would probably make like 220-235 at 8-10 lbs on a 14b and more than that on a s16g and you wouldnt have to raise the boost. Remember what Kevin told me... boost pressure=heat, airflow=power. Heat makes knock and knock eats rings and headgaskets. Power bends rods.

As for the injectors, good call, but someone should check into it. I tried, but I dont have time at the moment.

EDIT: I just looked, 420a's come ay 9.6:1 compression ratio. There is a way to calculate the end compression ratio after boost gets thrown in, that would help us figure out how much power he could be making but I dont have he calculator on this comp. When my brother comes on tonight i will be able to get the name of it.

[Black99GST]

how exciting! i dont have any tips... but good luck!

[david-b]

This is awesome. We're going to mathimatically figure out what turbo and boost to run!! HAHA. Don't forget to work in the mods I have right now. Again, this will be after a head rebuild. Cams, ported, valves, ssprings. Car is pushing a lot more than it did stock! People think around 200-210 when nicely tuned. With the head done that should raise it up considerably. Turbo it, and who knows. I'll look into some stuff later on today.

[Killa]

good luck david, finally you want boost, I knew it .

[Thor06]

Well, I dont even really know if what we come up with will be the least bit accurate, I was trying to point out that going through the hassle of turboing a NT car isnt worth slapping a t25 thinking you will be droppin close to 300 hp.

[david-b]

How about a t3? Seen some kits on ebay with those. What are those like?

What exactly were the stock turbos on the 4g63? Those were t25s, right? I also don't want to spend 1k for the whole setup. I realize that I will need to spend more the a FMIC and hard pipes, but for beginning, I just want something small and cheap. There's got to be a way to do it for rather cheap.

As for the setup, so I want something that can run very low boost but produce good airflow? Correct?

[Killa]

t-25 is stock turbo for 2g, and 1g I guess it 14b.