put the fear of God in them

[Muscletang]

Raid Rumors Spark Fear Among Immigrants

MIAMI - Rumors of immigration roundups have prompted thousands of illegal immigrants to stay home this week and are making some afraid to participate in a national immigration protest planned for Monday.

Though federal immigration officials said they were unfounded, rumors of random sweeps were rampant from coast to coast Friday, prompting thousands of immigrants to stay home from work, take their children out of school and avoid church.

The absences caused the rumors to build, as some thought their missing friends and co-workers had been arrested. Construction and agriculture were among the industries most affected.

Len Mills, executive vice president of the Associated General Contractors of South Florida, said he estimated at least 50 percent of workers on construction jobs in the region hadn't shown up for work. He said he believed even some legal workers were afraid.

"This is costing millions of dollars a day, and I don't know who is going to pay for it," he said.

Katie A. Edwards, executive director of Florida's Dade County Farm Bureau, said nearly a third of farmworkers didn't come to the fields earlier in the week.

Mari Ramos, a Peruvian nanny whose tourist visa ran out in 2003, listened when friends warned her not to take public transportation or risk arrest.

"That's when I became nervous. I stopped going to my night job," the 36-year-old Miami woman said.

"Everybody's edgy," said Chris Ruske, owner of a southern New Jersey nursery. "People are worried, and we're worried. There's an awful lot of rhetoric, and you wonder what's true. You wonder if the immigration Gestapo are coming to get you."

Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokesman Dean Boyd said the agency has received hundreds of calls in recent days asking about immigration raids. He said such rumors were typical after a raid like the one last week in which more than 1,000 employees of pallet manufacturer IFCO were arrested at more than 40 company sites nationwide.

But he added, "any suggestions that our standard, day to day law enforcement actions are timed or being staged to retaliate are absolutely false."

ICE officials acknowledged they have stepped up arrests under their "Operation Phoenix," an existing program to find and deport fugitive illegal immigrants with criminal backgrounds.

Many wondered whether the rumors would deter people from national immigration protests planned for Monday.

"It is the ugliest of rumors because it has intimidated people who are already afraid. They are living in the shadows of society, wondering who is going to knock on the door," said the Rev. Allan Ramirez, pastor of the Brookville Dutch Reform Church in Long Island, N.Y.

In Tuscaloosa, Ala., organizers of an annual Hispanic festival scheduled for Sunday briefly considered canceling it.

The National Immigration Law Center called on organizations across the country to sign a petition urging ICE to assure the public that it will not engage in any immigration arrests during Monday's protests.

The agency said its policy is not to discuss potential operations. "ICE will continue to operate as it does every day of the year," Boyd said.

Elias Bermudez, an activist and talk show host for a Spanish-language radio station in Phoenix, said many believe they are being punished for participating in recent protests in favor of legalizing the status of many illegal immigrants.

"Some people in our community think we're getting payback," he said.

The rumors affected a wide variety of businesses. In New Jersey and New York, day-laborer gathering sites drew only a trickle of workers.

In southern New Mexico, construction industry leaders said an unknown number of immigrant workers did not show up to work over fears of being rounded up, setting back plans for the Las Cruces Home Builders Association's spring Showcase of Homes next month.

In the rural town of Homestead, Fla., more than a dozen parents lined up early to take their kids out of Redondo Elementary School Wednesday for fear of a raid, said activist Jonathan Fried, who heads the nonprofit "We Count!"

"It's caused tremendous fear in our community, like I've never seen before," Fried said.

On Friday, ICE announced the arrests of 106 illegal immigrant fugitives and 19 immigration status violators throughout the Midwest over the last 10 days. Of those, 46 had criminal records, according to the department. Earlier this week, ICE announced the arrest of 183 fugitives in Florida alone.

Boyd said the agency makes arrests on a daily basis. "However, we don't conduct random sweeps. All our arrests are the result of investigations, evidence and intelligence," he said.

It's about damn time! I hope they're planning a nation wide sweep to round these little border hoppers up.

Big Brother is watching you Paco, Big Brother is watching you.

[TexasF355F1]

Well see how this goes.

I still think it's bullshit that every fucking hispanic thinks they can take off May 1st. Which by the way may have been a Mexican holiday 150 years ago, but it's actually a communist russian holiday.

It's funny that two of my friend thats work in construction have completely different views on this. One got pissed when I started bad mouthing Bush, like I was some sort of trader. My other friend can't stand them and told one of the guys he's supervising that is head of some of his own guys, that he better remember this shit b/c come Memorial Day, July 4th, Thanksgiving, Christmas and whatever other days that they want to work they can kiss his ass b/c he's not coming in to supervise.

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by TexasF355F1

Well see how this goes.

I still think it's bullshit that every fucking hispanic thinks they can take off May 1st.

Well I know Bush said he doesn't want to see it because, "it'll put a huge dent in our economy."

[YogsVR4]

Our politicians are gutless to stand up to the people streaming across the boarder. I could give two shits about illegals staging walk outs. I hope whomever hired their ass fires their lawbreaking ass and then gets fined heavily for hiring them in the first place.

GO BACK TO YOUR FUCKING COUNTRY AND COME BACK LEGALLY!

[Nayr747]

You guys are basing you views on this topic on emotion not rational thought and empirical evidence. There is a rational solution to this problem, but how do you expect to find it by not using reason? Also, shouldn't people's anger be directed, at least equally, at the corporations that hire them? This problem would not exist if corporations didn't break the law. I haven't heard anyone talking about that.

[YogsVR4]

People have talked about that over and over again. You just don't see it discussed in this thread.

At the end of the day, illegal immigrants need to be shipped home. My wife and her family came here through the mess that is legal immigration so these boarder jumpers shouldn't get a pass.

After the boarder is locked down, illegals are booted, then there needs to be some serious reform so it doesn't take seven years or more to become a citizen (or even get a green card).

[Nayr747]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

People have talked about that over and over again. You just don't see it discussed in this thread.

At the end of the day, illegal immigrants need to be shipped home. My wife and her family came here through the mess that is legal immigration so these boarder jumpers shouldn't get a pass.

After the boarder is locked down, illegals are booted, then there needs to be some serious reform so it doesn't take seven years or more to become a citizen (or even get a green card).

Well I don't really disagree with you. I was just pointing out that allowing emotion to enter into a conclusion on an issue will make the conclusion untrue.

But I do disagree that people are talking about the corporations role in this as much as they should be. From what I've seen people are not blaming the corporations and getting as angry at them as they do with the immigrants.

[Tehvisseeus]

Personally I'm not angry at the corporations or the illegals.

Corporations have a responsibility to the shareholders or to themselves to find the cheapest way to produce a good possible, if that takes illegals then so be it. Illegals are just trying to provide better for themselves, while I completely dissagree with how theyre doing it, its the easiest way for them to do it currently.

Who I am angry at is the government for not securing our borders and kicking the Illegals out, it is truely their responsibility. They need to lock down the border and do some reform although I do not believe they shold reform the process for becoming a citizen. Its that becoming a citizen is so hard that actually makes the people who do become citizens appreciate it. Reform must happen to the greencard, and guest worker programs, but thats it.

[fredjacksonsan]

Originally Posted by Tehvisseeus

Personally I'm not angry at the corporations or the illegals.

Corporations have a responsibility to the shareholders or to themselves to find the cheapest way to produce a good possible, if that takes illegals then so be it. Illegals are just trying to provide better for themselves, while I completely dissagree with how theyre doing it, its the easiest way for them to do it currently.

Who I am angry at is the government for not securing our borders and kicking the Illegals out, it is truely their responsibility. They need to lock down the border and do some reform although I do not believe they shold reform the process for becoming a citizen. Its that becoming a citizen is so hard that actually makes the people who do become citizens appreciate it. Reform must happen to the greencard, and guest worker programs, but thats it.

The question is, to whom does the Corporation owe the greatest responsibility? The country which allows them to operate, their own interests, or the people that work for them and make their profits possible? It's like a tripod, you can't knock one out and have the whole thing standing. So while the corporation may be entitled to try to maximize profits, doing so illegally (by hiring those not entitled to work in the country) is making a try at kicking out one of the legs.

Having said that, yes, it's the government's responsibility to police the borders and insure the security of the people that live there.

IMO the goverment should be able to take much harsher action against employers that employ illegals, and also agains the illegals themselves. Further, the crackdowns that have been occurring should continue.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

IMO the goverment should be able to take much harsher action against employers that employ illegals, and also agains the illegals themselves. Further, the crackdowns that have been occurring should continue.

Back to supply and demand. A lot of these employers are practicing what amounts to nothing but slave labor too and getting out cheap on labor costs.

If we ever get a new immigration law the penalties against employers must be made strict or harsh.

I heard the Senate bill is allowing illegals to possibly get social security benefits even though they perpetrated fraud by using false IDs or social security numbers.

[fredjacksonsan]

Originally Posted by bnaylor

Back to supply and demand. A lot of these employers are practicing what amounts to nothing but slave labor too and getting out cheap on labor costs.

If we ever get a new immigration law the penalties against employers must be made strict or harsh.

I heard the Senate bill is allowing illegals to possibly get social security benefits even though they perpetrated fraud by using false IDs or social security numbers.

Bad idea to get SS#'s for non citizens - especially those that have committed a felony.

[BNaylor]

The Senate version of the bill is looking better concerning action and penalties against employers that hire illegals.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060524/...co/immigration


On Tuesday, the Senate called for tougher employer penalties on businesses that hire illegal workers. The vote was 58-40.

Employers who do not use a new computerized system could be fined $200 to $600. The system would include information from the Social Security Administration, the Internal Revenue Service and Homeland Security Department.

There would be $20,000 fines for hiring illegal immigrants once the new screening system is in place, double the current maximum. Repeated violators could be sentenced to prison terms of up to three years.

Congress passed employer sanctions as part of the 1986 amnesty law, but they were never fully enforced and workers and employers got around them with fraudulent documents.

The Senate bill requires employers to check Social Security numbers and the immigration status of all new hires within 18 months after money is provided to the Homeland Security Department to expand the electronic system for screening workers.

Workers' information would have to be submitted to the electronic system within three days after the worker is hired. The Homeland Security Department would have to confirm the worker is legal or tell the employer the worker can't be immediately confirmed as a legal worker within 10 days.

The measure provides workers opportunities to contest the system's determination and to correct information that may be incorrectly flagging them as illegal workers. It also protects employers from liability if the screening system makes a mistake.

The House passed a bill in December that would impose fines on employers of undocumented workers ranging from $5,000 to $40,000. But, unlike the Senate bill, the House measure would require employers to screen all employees — an estimated 140 million people — instead of only new hires.

[Toksin]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

People have talked about that over and over again. You just don't see it discussed in this thread.

At the end of the day, illegal immigrants need to be shipped home. My wife and her family came here through the mess that is legal immigration so these boarder jumpers shouldn't get a pass.

After the boarder is locked down, illegals are booted, then there needs to be some serious reform so it doesn't take seven years or more to become a citizen (or even get a green card).

I feel kinda dirty () for saying this, but I agree with you there Dave.

We immigrated to New Zealand 7 years ago, and man, what a fucking hassle.

I don't even live in the states and I get wound up by illegals going nuts about what they want, etc etc. Not to be a prick, but why should we jump through hoops (like Yogs' wife) and these guys just jump the border and expect your country to cater to them?

Nothing wrong with immigrants. As long as they're legal.

[cody_e]

Originally Posted by Tehvisseeus

Personally I'm not angry at the corporations or the illegals.

Corporations have a responsibility to the shareholders or to themselves to find the cheapest way to produce a good possible, if that takes illegals then so be it. Illegals are just trying to provide better for themselves, while I completely dissagree with how theyre doing it, its the easiest way for them to do it currently.

Oh like Enron? They can cook their books to make their stocks go way up trhough the roof. It's illegal but hey it's best for the company to be "thriving."

Who I am angry at is the government for not securing our borders and kicking the Illegals out, it is truely their responsibility. They need to lock down the border and do some reform although I do not believe they shold reform the process for becoming a citizen. Its that becoming a citizen is so hard that actually makes the people who do become citizens appreciate it. Reform must happen to the greencard, and guest worker programs, but thats it.

The goverment has a big part in it BUT corporations still hire these illegals even though 99% of the time they know they are illegals. I don't think the fine should be $20k. I think it should be at least $50k and all the deportation/processing fees of the immiigrant. Take the financial burder off of the tax payers and make the people in this country breaking the law pay for it.