Engine Failure due to oil pump?

[MetaSteve]

Sorry if there are other posts on this already. Please send any threads on this that you know of please.

On a trip to Dallas, my oil light suddenly came on and while trying to exit the highway, a I started hearing loud knocking sound. Once I had stopped, the knock got worse. I tuned off the engine, then back on... Obviously I was having a huge engine failure. I had just checked the oil before the trip and found plenty of oil there.

I had heard that this car uses oil but this blew me away. Also I know this is the same engine as in some Isuzu that have had problems. They are telling me now that I need a new engine. I cannot believe this car 1) uses this much oil and 2) does not have some warning system to tell me when something like this is happening... Is this a common problem? Sound like a defect.

[rodeo02]

Steve it always helps to atleast post the year/engine. Assuming you have a 1998-2004 3.2L, yes, there are posts floating around on engine failure WITH a full sump of oil. That is rare though. Most of the failures you hear of stem from low/no oil. Sorry to hear of your issues.

G/luck
Joel

[MetaSteve]

Sorry... this is a 2000 Honda Passport 3.2L V6... the same engine in some Isuzu models. I orginially saw some people talking about problems HERE

At the time of the failure, once I stopped, I checked the oil... there was NO OIL on the stick. I put a couple quarts in (thinking this might help). I then looked under the car to see all the oil I just put in draining out. I found out later a threw a rod through the bottom of the pan. My question is how can the eengine burn all the oil up on the trip, causing the engine to sieze. Also, how was I to know? Check the oil every 100 miles??

[Ramblin Fever]

The engines in the 98-2004 years do have a design flaw that causes them to use oil at an alarming rate, some more then others.

For what ever reason, still unknown to many of the 98-2004 owners, these 3.2L Dohc's just start using oil at a very alarming rate sometimes without a previous issue. It seems to 1st start happening at about 60k-80k; other times, these engines blow a rod without being low on oil as well.

There really is no true way to know that you burnt through 5 qts in 100 miles; I too do a lot of highway driving, and respectively speaking 100 miles is a fairly short distance - most of the time, people that are on the highway only stop when they run low on gas. Well the tanks on these Rodeo's can give you at least 250-300 miles before truly needing to stop for gas - thus, at the time, one should check their oil level as well.

Well, you didn't even get 100 miles down the road and that is terrible, and unfortunately there IS no warning on these gages that tell you when you're low, only the oil pressure light.

I truly believe in the fact that Isuzu took this engine design too far, as an example this engine, the 3.2L, 1st started out as a Sohc 175hp in the 93-95yrs; then they kept it in the 95.5-97yrs with the Sohc at 190hp; and then they stretched even more out of it for the 98-2004 yrs at 205hp in the Dohc set-up.

I have yet to hear of this happening in the 93-97yrs of the 3.2L Sohc, some of those years use a bit of oil, but I've yet to hear of one burn through it that fast, and/or blow a rod with a full sump. It seems to only be an issue in the 98+yrs of the 3.2L Dohc, and I don't agree with the theory of it being a rare problem, it actually seems to be heard of a lot, and I just wonder if it's because they pulled too much out of it, personally.

[hangman412]

we've got the wifes 99 3.2 sittin in the garage right now, hers spun a bearing, and instead of getting right back into the problems of the 3.2, we opted to get a new 3.5 from isuzu. if you need or want her 3.2 let me know will make you a much better deal than isuzu made us on the 3.5 $6,000.00 for a v6..... man they are smokin crack

[Ramblin Fever]

Cautious, I believe the 3.5L Dohc's are prone to this problem too, starting between 50-70k miles. But not all are effected; just keep tabs on oil constantly.

Good luck to you.

[Gizmo42]

I think it was on the trooper section of this site that I read about some of the 3.5s where the cylinders were over bored so there was too much gap between the rings and cylinder. That has apparently been corrected in later 3.5 engines. Thats the theory for their oil usuage anyways. Someone had their engine disassembled and measured after it burned up from low oil and that is what was found.

[Rmasters3]

An engine oil reading can be misleading if the oil has some time between oil changes. Oil additives absorb and otherwise hold in suspension gunk, sludge water and other by products of combustion (that's what they are designed to do). Since some of your oil gets vaporized in normal use, and the lubricating oil volume is reduced but replaced with impurities held in suspension.

When your engine gets to full operating temp over a period of time like a long trip, many of these impurites are burned off. Run your oil too long between oil changes and the additives break down or are used up and this gunk gets deposited in your engine.

If you drive short distances, the additives do their job of suspending gunk. Go on a longer trip where the engine burns off these impurites and reduces the volume of the oil. What appeared to have been a sump full of oil, was a sump with oil and a substantial amount of impurities, which are now gone. The reduced overall volume of the oil is now insufficient, and the engine gets oil starved.

Frequent oil changes and checks of oil level are the only real answer.

[Ramblin Fever]

Originally Posted by Rmasters3

Frequent oil changes and checks of oil level are the only real answer.

Not in this case, many many of owners with these engines change their oil every 3k miles and check it constantly, and I've still heard/read 100's of posts of these 3.2L dohc engines running low on oil at the flip of a switch, sometimes in less then 200-300 miles; it IS a defect in the engine design. Not all are effected though. And some that are blowing rods even have a full sump, it's just terrible, I really feel for these owners.

I think it's plain idiotic that an engine can run dangerously low on a 100-200 mile run when you JUST changed the oil not even say 1k miles ago, and checked it before you left town.

I've got the 3.2L sohc and it does a lot of short trips, well 25-30 miles on a daily drive and then will see well over a 300-500 mile drive on any given weekend sometimes at the 2k mile mark of having changed the oil, and mine will not have barely used up 1/8qt by the time I return home. And my engine now has 156k miles.

Granted other 3.2L SOHC engines use up to 1-2qt's IN a 3k mile timeframe, but NOT on one 200-300 mile trip.

Again, I don't feel it's owners neglect on MANY of these cases, some it may be, but not the majority as it's even happening to some who have JUST changed the oil and/or people who literally have a full sump at the time that it happens.

[Blue Bowtie]

Geez. I almost feel bad that I have a SBC V-8 that has over 325K miles on it. I wonder what the timing chain is going to look like if I ever have to open it up for any work.

One way to combat the breakdown of polymers used to maintain mineral oil viscosity and not create the resultant ash is to not use oil. Use a fully syntheic PAO based lubricant, like Mobil 1, Royal Purple, AMSOIL, or Red Line. Psuedo-synthetics, like many of the Group III synthetics still suffer from the additive packages required to fortify them and maintain VI. These oils are sometimes their own worst enemies. Products included in the fake synthetic category include Castrol SynTek, Pennzoil Synthetic, and a host of others that are sold as "synthetic" oil, so you'd better read labels carefully.

[rodeo02]

Originally Posted by Blue Bowtie

...One way to combat the breakdown of polymers used to maintain mineral oil viscosity and not create the resultant ash is to not use oil. Use a fully syntheic PAO based lubricant, like Mobil 1, Royal Purple, AMSOIL....

Oh gawd.. Not another BITOG'er! (kidding)

Joel

[Blue Bowtie]

Actually, I was asked to leave the Schaeffer Oil site because I asked too many tough questions, such as "Which one of you is the qualified tribologist?"

I think I hit a tender nerve when I started asking the tough questions and revealing their secrets. Bob might be the "oil guy" but he's no tribologist. I know two Exxon/Mobil chemists, and they reveal a lot of secrets about the trade, who cuts corners, and where. There is a lot of good information on that site, but information that isn't in Schaeffer's interest is not allowed.