Starting Problems

[Alibi]

Hello. I recently bought a 1989 lesabre T-type. The engine was shot so I put my engine from my wrecked olds in it (computer and harnesses too). It started up just fine yesterday when I finished working on it and I drove it for a few miles just to see what would happen.

I got a code 41 but I had that code before the wreck and the engine ran fine with the code and it ran fine yesterday.

Today, I tried to start it and it would turn over but die as soon as it would start up. I tried jumping it, swapping batteries, swapping alternators but no luck.

I suspect a bad fuel filter since the car has been sitting for a couple of years...and I'm sure the old fuel doesn't help it any either.

Any suggestions??? I'm going to go replace the fuel filter and then update...it's just that it is wierd that everything worked fine yesterday but crapped out on me today....hmmm

[Alibi]

Fuel filter did nothing...However there wasnt more than a couple of drips coming out of the filter after I pulled it off and I seem to remember getting a bit of a stream the other times I have changed a filter. Wierd.

I pulled the MAF too and cleaned it with carb cleaner but I don't think that did any good either. A neighbor came by and we fiddled with it for a little while. When it would turn over, it seemed to run longer when we had the MAF sensor electrical connector loose. I have a spare off the original engine that I may try to put on...but, then again, the engine only has 45k miles on it.

[stuzman]

Originally Posted by Alibi

Fuel filter did nothing...However there wasnt more than a couple of drips coming out of the filter after I pulled it off and I seem to remember getting a bit of a stream the other times I have changed a filter. Wierd.

I pulled the MAF too and cleaned it with carb cleaner but I don't think that did any good either. A neighbor came by and we fiddled with it for a little while. When it would turn over, it seemed to run longer when we had the MAF sensor electrical connector loose. I have a spare off the original engine that I may try to put on...but, then again, the engine only has 45k miles on it.

I'm a little confused with the post. In the first post, it sounds like the engine turns over but wouldn't start, thus the battery and alternator changes. Now it sounds like the engine turns over but won't start. Could you clarify? If it turns over but doesn't start, the code 41 may be giving you an indication that the ECM isn't receiving an ignition pulse indicating a possible malfunction with the crankshaft/camshaft sensor or ignition module. Check to see if you're getting a spark. If not and you have a scan tool, you can take a look at the crankshaft sensor to see if it's generating pulses. That should get you pointed in the right direction.

[Alibi]

Ok, let me clarify and update:

The engine would turn over and start for 1-5 seconds before it died and coughed (air coming back out of plenum?). The neighbor came by and we played with the air intake and MAF. He unplugged the MAF and the engine seemed to stay running slightly longer than when it was plugged in, however no fault codes.

I went ahead and replaced the fuel filter (original not too plugged up) and very little fuel came out of the lines. I've tried to start the car and now it wont start at all, although it still cranks. It seems like it doesn't have enough fuel.

However, the guy I bought the car from told me he had a new fuel pump installed before he gave up on fixing the old engine. Could something in the tank have somehow come undone or gotten plugged up since I drove the car last night? What should I look to next?

I don't have a scan tool (I'm a poor starving college student). The ICM and coil assembly was pulled off the original engine for use on mine but I'm fairly certain that they wern't the cause of the death of the old engine (found oil in the antifreeze). I do, however, have an 89 PA with the same engine that I could swap parts over to test if one on on the swapped-in engine is bad. I may try to swap in the ICM/Coils tomorrow morning just to see what may happen.

I also have the original engine sitting in my garage that I can pirate parts from, but it had around 181k miles on it vs my 45k on the swapped in engine.

So what direction should I go in next?

[stuzman]

Originally Posted by Alibi

Ok, let me clarify and update:

The engine would turn over and start for 1-5 seconds before it died and coughed (air coming back out of plenum?). The neighbor came by and we played with the air intake and MAF. He unplugged the MAF and the engine seemed to stay running slightly longer than when it was plugged in, however no fault codes.

I went ahead and replaced the fuel filter (original not too plugged up) and very little fuel came out of the lines. I've tried to start the car and now it wont start at all, although it still cranks. It seems like it doesn't have enough fuel.

However, the guy I bought the car from told me he had a new fuel pump installed before he gave up on fixing the old engine. Could something in the tank have somehow come undone or gotten plugged up since I drove the car last night? What should I look to next?

I don't have a scan tool (I'm a poor starving college student). The ICM and coil assembly was pulled off the original engine for use on mine but I'm fairly certain that they wern't the cause of the death of the old engine (found oil in the antifreeze). I do, however, have an 89 PA with the same engine that I could swap parts over to test if one on on the swapped-in engine is bad. I may try to swap in the ICM/Coils tomorrow morning just to see what may happen.

I also have the original engine sitting in my garage that I can pirate parts from, but it had around 181k miles on it vs my 45k on the swapped in engine.

So what direction should I go in next?

Verify that you have the pressure/volume for the fuel system with a gauge if you have one so that you can eliminate that system. If that looks okay, then take a look at the ignition system and see if there is any spark developed. I suspect either system is at fault.

[Alibi]

Ok, I swapped out ICM/coil assembly and no luck. I'm going to try to get a fuel pressure guage from the local shop and try that...

One more thing, whenever I turn the key over to run (but not cranking it) I can hear the fuel pump priming. I know that is normal, but It seems very loud and sometimes whines for a longer time then I've heard on my other h-bodies...is this normal of a new pump or is it just loud because I have my backseat out and trunk carpet/insulation out?

More Info: No blown fuses, the only code I'm getting is 41 (been on the engine as long as I've had it ~2 years), 45k miles on the engine/tranny, 181k miles on the body. New fuel pump (according to the guy I bought it from), new fuel filter. ICM/Coils good, battery good. ECM from junkyard but tests fine.

It's really annoying that it worked fine the first time I fired up the engine in almost a year and now it wont cooperate with me

[stuzman]

Originally Posted by Alibi

Ok, I swapped out ICM/coil assembly and no luck. I'm going to try to get a fuel pressure guage from the local shop and try that...

One more thing, whenever I turn the key over to run (but not cranking it) I can hear the fuel pump priming. I know that is normal, but It seems very loud and sometimes whines for a longer time then I've heard on my other h-bodies...is this normal of a new pump or is it just loud because I have my backseat out and trunk carpet/insulation out?

It's really annoying that it worked fine the first time I fired up the engine in almost a year and now it wont cooperate with me

With the switch on and the engine not running, the pump should come on for about two seconds. It's possible the pump is shot, but get a gauge on the system and get the pressure checked. Sounds like you may have fuel system problems.

[Alibi]

Found it! Whoever installed the new fuel pump messed up the sending unit (I think that is the part I'm thinking of) because although the fuel gauge read full, it was bone dry. It explains the overly loudness of the fuel pump and the lack of fuel in the lines when I changed the filter.

Anyway, I dumped in a couple gallons of lawnmower fuel and she started right up. I then went to the local gas station and put in some fuel too so she should be happy for a while

Thanks for the suggestions!

[Gocart879]

Ha ha, great story and excellent lesson to learn, did the gauge go back down when you put fuel in it? good luck with your charm,. she has a lot of life left in her. anyways lets start working on that code 41.

[Alibi]

No, the guage actually went up more. It now well past the full mark. I do know it is an 18 gal tank so I'm just going to have to fill 'er up, calculate approximate MPG, and then guess my fuel level from my trip guage. I'll eventually fix it...but right now I just want to get the T on the road

As for the code 41, It showed up when I hit a chunk of tire on the interstate less than an hour after I bought the olds 88 (where the engine came from)...but it hasn't ever affected performance so I'll prolly just swap it out whenever I do a timing chain or crank sensor whenever one or the other (inevitably) goes out in the future.

[stuzman]

Originally Posted by Alibi

Found it! Whoever installed the new fuel pump messed up the sending unit (I think that is the part I'm thinking of) because although the fuel gauge read full, it was bone dry. It explains the overly loudness of the fuel pump and the lack of fuel in the lines when I changed the filter.

Anyway, I dumped in a couple gallons of lawnmower fuel and she started right up. I then went to the local gas station and put in some fuel too so she should be happy for a while

Thanks for the suggestions!

Glad to hear that you got it going and that the fuel pump didn't get damaged by running dry. You should be able to just replace the sending unit by itself and not as a whole assembly with the fuel pump. At least that's the way it was for my 2000 LeSabre. Good job!