Strange Ticking Noise, Goes and Comes

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

It all began when my tranny started to die on me, I heard it ticking pretty loud at idle, seemed to be coming from both sides of the engine.
So tranny got replaced, so i thought noise would be gone, but it now still goes and come. The noise is not really coming from the top. More noticeable on the belt side of the car.

Today I listened and it is more noticeable from the bottom bellt side.
It is really starting to get a little louder.
I have a new tranny in there with 60k and she runs and shifts smooth, engine runs great. When I put my ear to the top of the engine while runing, it is very quite.

Like I said this noise goes and comes, it is really strange. Noticable when at idle. I really want to get it fixed.
If I give the car gas, it will increase its speed with engine, but will slow down after the engine does.
It did this noise and the fans was not runing.
The noise just comes and goes randomly.
Sometimes she is just quite as a kitten.
93 Buick Lesabre Limited 3800

So what do you guys think it is?

[HotZ28]

How many miles on the car? The reason I ask is, it sounds like a timing chain slap or tensioner loose. Have you checked the idler pulleys, water pump and harmonic balancer? Does it make the noise with all belts removed? Sometimes, a leaking exhaust manifold or a leak at a pipe connection, will make a "ticking sound".

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

the engine has 80k
the tranny has 65k
But everything on this new engine, was on my previous old engine. That is what I was told.
I had that replaced last year.
So i believe they used the same timing chain.
My old engine had 260K b4 the service people messed it up.
My tranny just died last 2 weeks with about 300K.
But I now have a good engine and tranny, car runs very smooth. Just this random ticking.
Body is in super clean condition.
Engine burns NO oil!

Is your tentioner supposed to move a little bit?
Cause it does, when i give it gas.

I doubt the water pump, she hardly gets to 200 in summer time. Never over heated. No leaks, coolant stays full.

Can I drop the belt, then start it to see???

Exhaust system is almost untouched for a car this age. The underbody is excellent when its up in the air.

I dont know too much about the harmonic blancer.

I want to get this fixed soon.

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

I dont know if this helps but I noticed this today. I started the car, let it idle and no noise. Turn off, and restart it, again NO noise. Did this 4 more time NO noise.
Did it again, and it started ticking noise now. When I shut engine off, its a last Tick. But very quite. It will keep ticking once it starts almost, but it will dissapear eventually.
Totally puzzled.

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

I am almost certain the noise is coming from the bottom of the car now.
Is the crank on the bottom of the drive belt supposed to vibrate some? It seems to be vibrating sometimes, diffentately more than the other pulleys it looks like. But all pulleys seem to have some little vibration.
My S-belt also has little strains of thread starting to come loose on the edges, very small. on both edges. But otherwise the belt is in great condition. Was replaced not to long ago.

[HotZ28]

Yes, you can take all the belts off and start the engine to see it the ticking is there. I would not run it for over a minute or two since the water pump will not be turning. Also, you need to check the harmonic balancer very closely to see if the rubber has deteriorated in between the inner and outer pulley. While the belts are off, (and engine not running) put both hands on the pulley and rock it back and fourth and side to side to see if you can detect any movement. Post back with your findings.

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

Originally Posted by HotZ28

Yes, you can take all the belts off and start the engine to see it the ticking is there. I would not run it for over a minute or two since the water pump will not be turning. Also, you need to check the harmonic balancer very closely to see if the rubber has deteriorated in between the inner and outer pulley. While the belts are off, (and engine not running) put both hands on the pulley and rock it back and fourth and side to side to see if you can detect any movement. Post back with your findings.

Funny how u mentioned "side to side" cause while it was spining, it looked like it went side to side a few times. I will have to take the belt off and check it out tommorow. I will post what I find.

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

took the belt off and the noise was still there.
same damn ticking!
I tired to reach my hand down there and wiggle the crank, but it didnt move to much.
What is my next step I have to take?
If the timing chain was bad, or going bad, wouldnt my car not drive? The car is excellent runing condition.
Good gas milleage all day. about 28mpg!
what can the problem be>?

After taking off the belt, the noise is alittle more louder when belt was replaced.

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

Damn it, can anyone help?

Okay the noise is now louder/consistant.
It appears under 2000 rpm now.
B4 I only heard it at idle.

And even B4 that, when prob first appeared. I would hear the noise while breaking to a STOP. BUT NO other noise at idle or stop position!
^^I thought that was just a loose fan or bolt.

I am now association this Noise to be the Same, all this time!
^^ all of this was in a 1month span.

The car is still driving like a champ, But this noise has got to go. This ticking noise is getting loud enough, that u can hear it 2 cars ahead!
The noise still DISAPPEARS sometimes. But only to reappear a minute later.

Car still makes the noise with the BELT OFF!
Seems to be coming from the sides of the engine, or the Bottom of the engine. It echos like crazy....

I noticed yesterday, with the Engine runing and the belt on.

That the center bolt in the middle of the crank seems to be moving Side-TO-Side. (I hear ticking)
I REV engine by hand:
Bolt that is going Side-To-Side, Straightens OUT! (Noise goes almost)

I need to do something sooon..

If the timing chain was messed up, wouldnt the car drive like crap??
If the valves was messed up or bent, wouldnt the car drive like crap??
No codes to this date either.

[HotZ28]

It sounds as if the original "ticking noise" is turning into a "clanging noise", if it has echoes and can be heard two cars away! Typical signs of a balancer problem!! A defective balancer noise will come and go, just as you described! Again, put your hands on the outer ring, and turn it clockwise and counter clockwise. You should not have any, (0) movement!

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

Originally Posted by HotZ28

It sounds as if the original "ticking noise" is turning into a "clanging noise", if it has echoes and can be heard two cars away! Typical signs of a balancer problem!! A defective balancer noise will come and go, just as you described! Again, put your hands on the outer ring, and turn it clockwise and counter clockwise. You should not have any, (0) movement!

HotZ28, im taking the balancer off tommorow.
The noise is now mostly a clanging noise now, but will still ticking noise sometimes. But diffentily more clanging now.. It DID change!
Its starting to sound like a cummins turbo disel. lol
it echos everywhere

I will check balancer again tmrw. Hope I fix it.

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

Okay, I replace the Harmonic Balancer with a new one from NAPA autoparts. The work was done by my mechanic. Drove car 45 miles and the noise is still there! It is mostly noticeable when just getting off the exit ramp on the interstate and coming to a stop at idle. It still comes and goes randomly.

Anybody have any new suggestions? Or where to look at next??
I need some help soon, noise comes and goes alot more often now. Remember b4 it was constant most of the time at idle!

[93buicklesabrelmtd]

Man this forum is slow these days.....

If someone can help, I still have the ticking noise, but only even louder now! I poped the hood today, cause it was loudest today. I notice the new balancer that I just got replaced was just wobbling back and fourth. Im starting to think it was not torqued correctly!

What should I do next? Mechanic says the new balancer might have been bad! But its worst than the old one.
Noise will still just come and go, tickest loudest at the stoplight after the exit ramp. Wait at the light for 1 min and it might just dissapear!!

Someone who knows anything, what would you do next?
Im almost about to ditch this car! and get the new body Cadillac DTS.
But this car is my baby since 97, its a 93.

[spinne1]

Your new balancer is wobbling???? This is very bad. It should not be possible for this to happen. The fit to get the balancer on is so tight that there is no room for wobble (unless you somehow got the wrong balancer--but your mechanic would have almost certainly noticed that).

Regardless of your balancer, two major sources of rattle noises are the timing chain and the valves. Valves making a little ticking noise is a sign of slighly worn camshaft lobes (or sagging valve springs, etc.), which is nothing to be too concerned about in an old engine. It is mostly just an annoyance rather than a danger. With valves, you usually will have the noise constantly, which in your case you do not, thus I suspect it is not the valves. However, if you have a slightly sticky valve or valves, that could exhibit the intermittent nature you are experiencing as well as get louder over time as the stickiness gets worse. If you have a sticky valve or valves, expect your idle to become progressively rougher, until after a period of time you may even have the engine stall at times. Eventually you will wear down your camshaft lobe or lobes to the point where the combustion chamber in question ceases to get the fuel it needs to fire (or ceases to open the exhaust valve--thus causing damage to the engine).

As for your timing chain, they stretch over time. They are designed to go about 100,000 miles with no problems, but will get worse and worse as the miles pile up. You said your engine was replaced at 260K but that the external parts (like the heads which hold the valves, and the timing chain) were reused. Honestly this sounds like professional incompetence if you paid someone to do this engine change for you. Any engine with 260K is going to need valve work and a timing chain change.

Will your car run well with a loose timing chain? Yes. It being loose means that the chain is slapping either the tensioner or the sides of the front cover, causing the noise. It is not yet loose enough to prevent the engine from running right because it hasn't jumped a tooth on the camshaft or crankshaft gears. If that happened it would almost never run at all. Despite the looseness you are generally getting the valves to open and close near the right time, thus the car runs good. However, this is going to affect your fuel mileage, and your emissions, and the life of your engine (your combustion will happen at slightly too early or late times increasingly as the chain gets looser). Actually your chain would have to be REALLY bad to likely damage the engine, but anyhow if your chain is the original it should be replaced. And while they are doing that, have your water pump replaced (your noise could also be coming from a water pump that is going bad).

How easy is a timing chain to replace? For a good home mechanic, not too hard, but still would take several hours most likely. You have to remove pretty much the entire front of the engine (power steering pump and bracket, alternator and bracket, motor mount, motor mount bracket, harmonic balancer, water pump, and the wiring and plastic shield behind the balancer, and the crankshaft sensor bracket). Anyhow, it is doable but difficult (mostly because it is dirty nasty work). The cost for the timing chain and gears is less than $100. The gasket kit for the front cover is about $30-$40.

[Alibi]

A timing gear kit for my 86 olds was about $60 and I believe the gasket kit was around 30 from O'reily.

But...the harmonic balancer should not wobble. None. Nil. Nilch. The mechanic should have noticed it if it was wobbling or should have known to torque it down like crazy. Check with another mechanic to get a second opinion on the harmonic balancer. A mechanic I know uses a 1-inch impact wrench (looks like a jackhammer) to get them off fast and back on as tight as they were before he took it off.

Was the replacement balancer new or "fresh" from a junkyard?? If from a junkyard, the rubber may have partially detiorated from misuse while the donor car sat.