Need help with Tamiya Flat Black XF-1

[SFTB]

Ever noticed how bad decals look over Tamiya XF-1. For example, putting seat belts decals on a WRC car seat.

The problem is that the decal is semi-gloss and the Flat black is... well flat black! I tried putting Future floor wax mixed with Tamiya Flat based with my airbrush but the final result is not quite as flat as the original XF-1.

I also tried an alternative : Model Master Acrylic 4636 / Flat Clear Acryl. And again same conclusion, it is not as flat as the original Flat black coat.

What could I do? I am short on solutions now. I wonder how the aircraft modelers do it. I know that they never put decals on flat surfaces (silvering issues). So they clear coat the surfaces, put the decals and then spray them back with flat clear. Is it simply that they are happy with the not-as-flat-as-it-was finish?

[freakmech]

Most military guys are using airbrushes so when they spray the flat clear over the decals they use a low PSI so that the paint dries in the air before contact, acheiving a much flatter finish then you would get with a spray can or brush.

[Lambo003]

It's called "Silvering" and happens on flat finished (something to do with light refraction).

You need to paint a glossy surface or coat with a clear gloss then follow up with a flat clear.

[ZoomZoomMX-5]

Originally Posted by Lambo003

It's called "Silvering" and happens on flat finished (something to do with light refraction).

You need to paint a glossy surface or coat with a clear gloss then follow up with a flat clear.

Uh, yeah that's certainly correct and good advice but maybe you should read his question again...the problem he's having has nothing to do w/silvering (read his last paragraph very carefully). He's not happy w/the difference in the sheen on the decals vs. the flatter sheen of the seat. The decaled area is still too glossy after he's tried to dull it down.

DOH

I'm not sure what can be done other than mixing more flat base into the clear. Testors Dullcote dries pretty flat, but I'm not sure you can get it anymore. Perhaps taking the military builder anti-silvering approach one step further and not only clearcoating (gloss) the seat before the decal, but after as well, and then apply dullcote so that both seat and seatbelt are the same level of "flatness"-your problem now might be that the semigloss decals will always have a bit more sheen than the seat, which keeps getting flatter at the same rate, but the two never get to the same level of flatness. Never had this problem, because I don't use seatbelt decals...I use aftermarket seatbelt hardware.

[SFTB]

Please do not think I want to say this in a mean way...

Originally Posted by freakmech

Most military guys are using airbrushes so when they spray the flat clear over the decals they use a low PSI so that the paint dries in the air before contact, acheiving a much flatter finish then you would get with a spray can or brush.

That is what I have written in my original message. I used my airbrush to spray 1-a mix of Future wax and Tamiya flat base and in a second attempt 2-ModelMaster Flat clear Acrylic. It is Ok, the problem is just that it is not as flat as the original Flat Black. I'll try the pressure thing to see if it helps...

Originally Posted by Lambo003

It's called "Silvering" and happens on flat finished (something to do with light refraction).

You need to paint a glossy surface or coat with a clear gloss then follow up with a flat clear.

Actually silvering is caused by bubbles being trapped between the decal and the paint's rough surface (flat paint is rough). The decal will have a silver appearance. In that case the solution is to gloss coat to obtain a smotth surface to prevent air from being trapped underneath the decal. My problem is not really that. The film is just glossy, And I want it to be as flat as the Flat black is. Now here is my problem again. Putting the 2 products I mentionned above gave me a nice uniform finish. However, the achieved flat finish is not as flat as the original Flat black I had first.

Sorry I my first post was not clear enough. Again please do not take these additional comments as me being rude. I really need both your opinions on this.

[MPWR]

There are better flattening agents than Future with flat base in it. One that's very popular with aircraft modelers is Polly-S (PollyScale) acrylic clear flat. You should be able to find it in any decent model railroad hobby shop. It's dead flat, and sprays very easily

[freakmech]

Originally Posted by MPWR

There are better flattening agents than Future with flat base in it. One that's very popular with aircraft modelers is Polly-S (PollyScale) acrylic clear flat. You should be able to find it in any decent model railroad hobby shop. It's dead flat, and sprays very easily

thats it, i was trying to think of that name, PolyScale. the military guys at my old LHS always recomended that stuff. i was going to mention it but my memory was glitching.

[Lambo003]

Originally Posted by ZoomZoomMX-5

Uh, yeah that's certainly correct and good advice but maybe you should read his question again...the problem he's having has nothing to do w/silvering (read his last paragraph very carefully). He's not happy w/the difference in the sheen on the decals vs. the flatter sheen of the seat. The decaled area is still too glossy after he's tried to dull it down.

DOH

lmao Weenie!

Sorry! I graduated from Evelyn Woods's speed-reading of threads course!!!

[stevenoble]

Just a thought but if you use some photoetched seat belts and buckles you can spray the seats with your usual flat black and eliminate the decal problems because you won't be using any.

[Scale-Master]

Try the Testors lacquer Dullcote. Tall square bottle.
I shoot it at regular pressure, but very light coat(s), and it doesn't take a lot of coats to be very flat, usually just one or two applications. It dries so fast it doesn't have a chance to eat the decals or enamel paint. It's worked for me for decades... - Mark

[RallyRaider]

My favourite flat coat is now from Modellers. Only place I know that sells it is Rainbow 10 in Japan. Unlike other flat coats like Testors Dullcoat (which is pretty good itself) the Modellers flat is completely clear in the bottle, so no risk of the "clouding" that can occur with conventional flat clears if you're not careful.

[bvia]

True, but that clouding effect is sometimes a benefit, esp. when attempting to replicate the a dash mat (used by racers to keep reflections off the inside surface of the windscreen) and the seatcovers used by most (if not all) manufacturers of race seats and velour seat covers. you'll find that the ends of the fibers get frayed and end up ginving a light coat of almost grey. Also seatbelts (not the carrier film) are rarely if ever a flat color....

Bill