2005 Charger????

[92pontiacbonny]

they really did screw over the charger name but i kinda like how it looks, but i totally beleive that they screw over the charger name
wat were they thinkin

[umbagla]

the charger is pretty beastly so dont rag on it in a race the 05 could beat the older chargers but mustangs fuck over every other car

[theFREAKnasty82]

Originally Posted by umbagla

the charger is pretty beastly so dont rag on it in a race the 05 could beat the older chargers but mustangs fuck over every other car

I doubt that. You take a Charger SRT-8 vs. a '69 Charger Daytona w/ 426 HEMI, the '69 will beat it, though it may weigh more, it makes more power than the 6.1 HEMI. The only reason why the new Charger may beat the old one is because it's lighter and made out of plastic, fiberglass and aluminum. The old Charger was solid steel and weighed 4200 lb. but was one heck of a ride.

[beef_bourito]

new one looks cool but it's a POS because of the charger badging that they ruined.

[tuske427]

It sounds like the new Charger is suffering a similiar fate as the new GTO from the diehard car folk. Everyone loves the original, and feels like they got the short end of the deal with the new car.

In both cases a good car has been made, performance is good, meets modern safety requirements, engineering, etc... but neither are truly loved. I heard people speak at the SEMA show this year about how they don't like the new Charger, and will not be building them up.

It just makes me wonder would either car receive so much controversy if they had a different name?

Should we have expected the same treatment Ford gave to the new Mustang for the Charger and GTO? This is the one of 2 cars (VW Beetle is the other) that is a literal "new" interpretation of it's ancestor car and its sales are great. Even the T-Bird flopped.

Should the upcoming new Challenger (assuming it's made) be a literal update to the original E-body beauty it was in 1970? This would make an interesting poll topic, if not done already.

[Jaguar D-Type]

Originally Posted by tuske427

Should the upcoming new Challenger (assuming it's made) be a literal update to the original E-body beauty it was in 1970? This would make an interesting poll topic, if not done already.

I don't think the new Challenger should have retro styling as retro styling usually doesn't age well.

[tuske427]

Originally Posted by Jaguar D-Type

I don't think the new Challenger should have retro styling as retro styling usually doesn't age well.

The following supports your opinion- one claim made by automotvie designers is that a "retro" car can't really be updated. If you change it, it ceases to be retro to the original design. If you don't change it, then it gets old after a bit and sales die. The new beetle is a perfect example of this. About all they can do is update powertrains and offer a convertible version, or offer new colors, etc. Both the new Beetle and the PT cruiser have followed this path.

[MrPbody]

tusk427,

Like GTO, Charger is completely misunderstood by the general "buying public". It was never intended to be a "new" Charger in the sense of the '69 "Hemi" car discussed. It's larger, heavier, and a luxury car, NOT a high performance ar (unlike GTO). Charger is on the same platform as the 300s and Magnum.

As for defacing the Charger "name", Dodge did that better than ever in the '80s when they hung the name on an imported POS Mitsubishi. The new one is a far better expression of the name (IMO). The most rediculous TV ad I ever saw for a car, was the one where they showed a '70 T/A and a '69 Z/28 getting hosed off by a '69 Charger, then switched to the early '80s stuff, and tried to compare the (then) new Charger to T/A and Z/28. Even IF the little Mitsi would run with a 305 Chevy (no big task), the car was not anywhere NEAR the level of overall performance.

BTW, a '69 Charger is a "uni-body" design, weighing in right at 3,400 lbs. They are MUCH lighter than they look. No frame, quite "hollow", and lacking a lot of ammenities of other muscle car offerings of the era. A hemi car is very fast IF you can hook it up. I never worried much about them, as they weren't good street racers, and VERY rare. The 440 cars worried me a lot more. 383 cars were "breakfast"...

GTO is STILL getting badmouthed by the "band wagoneer" crowd. They bought older GTOs for the "cool factor". They feel threatened by any modern performance car, but especially one that can outrun what they have, bearing the same nameplate.
TRUE GTO people revel in the car. It meets or exceeds EVERY performance parameter set down for the original GTO (it really IS the "quickest" GTO ever built). And it does it with subtle class, not "in your face" retro crap. The "Hey! Look at me!" crowd doesn't like it. I say, GOOD! It isn't intended for you!
Any true car freak is far more interested in what the dash, steering wheel and top of the hood look like, than they are what others see them in. The opposition always gets a great view of the exhaust and rear lighting. I even recall one Mustang guy protesting it BECAUSE he didn't like the tail lights or exhaust tips. The more things change, the more they remain the same...

I suspect there will be some attempts at making Charger fast, but at 4,100 lbs. with a smaller engine, it will be a monumental task to get it to perform like GTO or Cobra. I suppose they could take the easy way out like Ford did, and plug in a blower... I wouldn't look for it, though.

Bottom line? I like Charger. It's a good looking car, though the 2-door DOES look better. It is a good runner for its size, and the initial quality is better than expected from a Chrysler product. if they could just get that plastic in the interior to LOOK like good stuff instead of cheesy. GM cars use lots of plastic, too, but it sure doesn't look like that!


Jim

[tuske427]

Mr Pbody:

You bring up some very good points, thank you.

While I agree the charger is not a literal refresh of the late 60's b-body, tv movie star car, (bullit, blade, dirty mary crazy larry, and, of course, the dukes to name a few) the folks over at DC are pulling in some cues from that car on their current rendition of the charger. The new "Daytona" graphics, for example, and some of the body lines do hint back at the late 60's car.

I agree the (later) 70's and 80's chargers are totally unrelated except by name.

The current GTO shares only the name of it's A-body ancestor, (or the x-body, etc..) I too don't believe that GM intended for this car to be a throwback to the older GTO, I think they needed to fill a "performance" car slot in their marketing program after killing off the F-body and since the GTO name has credibility they used it as opposed to trying to establish credibility of a new performance car and new name.

IMO, the general public hears the name "GTO" and is expecting the GTO they've always known and feel let down when it's not that. It could be for the reasons you stated, or for others, too. Hard to say.

I don't think that GM intended the GTO to be a direct F-body replacement either. GM compared the GTO to a BMW in a commercial, not a Mustang. Plus, the fact that GM hasn't made a "Judge" package or large hood scoops, spoilers, etc, on this car only tells me that they intend this car to be more sophisitcated. No carousel red, no harvest gold, etc.. I think the general public feels differntly, which helps add to the less than expected sales of this car.

I think there are people who hear the charger name and are feeling this same let down. It's my understanding that the Charger sales aren't that great, either.

Recently, for example- the cover of mopar muscle (May, 05) had an early 70's charger on the cover and stated "this is a charger" then showed the new one and stated "this ain't". People, of course, are affected by media and what they read. The same for what I heard at the SEMA show this year. It only adds to the fire.

Personally, I don't think the new GTO is all that exciting visually, but it's a blast to drive. I had the chance to have some fun with one at the "GM auto show in motion" this summer (as well as a c6 vette, and some other GM vehicles).

Conversely, I like that DC is making a "Daytona" package for the charger and offering a Hemi for it. I like how they are tastefully pulling some heritage into their new cars. I love the look of the older cars, I'm biased this way.

I'm in the crowd that if you're going to pull the name of a past car, then at least use some elements from it. It's an "all or nothing" kind of thing for me. I think Ford and VW went all the way with thier modern interpretations, while DC has kept it minimal with a few lines and graphics. GM only used the name. I would like to see a little more heritage in the GTO. Maybe a Judge package, or some more aggressive panels on the car. (more aggressibve, hood scoops, bumpers, etc) It could be totally optional for the consumer. But, like you say, mabye I'm misunderstanding the car, too.

I look forward to see what DC does with the rumored new Challenger.

Take care,

-BV

[BlenderWizard]

Originally Posted by ndoerr

Just one thing, what the hell is Dodge doing to the Charger name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you start feeling too bad about the Charger, just take a look at what Chevy did to the Malibu... makes me wanna cry

[BlenderWizard]

Originally Posted by tuske427

It sounds like the new Charger is suffering a similiar fate as the new GTO from the diehard car folk. Everyone loves the original, and feels like they got the short end of the deal with the new car.

In both cases a good car has been made, performance is good, meets modern safety requirements, engineering, etc... but neither are truly loved. I heard people speak at the SEMA show this year about how they don't like the new Charger, and will not be building them up.

It just makes me wonder would either car receive so much controversy if they had a different name?

Should we have expected the same treatment Ford gave to the new Mustang for the Charger and GTO? This is the one of 2 cars (VW Beetle is the other) that is a literal "new" interpretation of it's ancestor car and its sales are great. Even the T-Bird flopped.

Should the upcoming new Challenger (assuming it's made) be a literal update to the original E-body beauty it was in 1970? This would make an interesting poll topic, if not done already.

I think we all ought to be grateful that the manufacturers are atleast bringing back v8 RWD cars. What happened to the T-bird, anyway?

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by BlenderWizard

What happened to the T-bird, anyway?

Production was stopped due to insufficient sales and general lack of interest.
The last T-bird was pretty specialised; a nice, pretty car, but had a small target market.
It was too soft, squshy and slow to be a performance car, too retro and expensive to appeal to the younger crowd and too small inside to be useful, so its market was for older guys who wanted to show off at the country club / retirement home.

[Jaguar D-Type]

Originally Posted by BlenderWizard

if you start feeling too bad about the Charger, just take a look at what Chevy did to the Malibu... makes me wanna cry

True, but GM has revised plans for rwd cars. Perhaps the next generation Impala will have rwd and awd.

check this link

RWD

[mikes_classics_68]

Originally Posted by moparrr07

you guy dont get the marketing that dodge has in mind, with putting on the charger name it makes more people reconize it even though it has nothing to do with the old one, it made to compete with the 05 stang gt, i dont think its ruining anything, how could it ruin it, the charger srt-8 is a crazy fast car but has a high price of 40k base for the srt, i love the looks of it, a remake of an old car cannot be put into a muscle car forum, because the people in there will hate it

i agree with the fact that it dosn't hold to the old charger look . but it does hold the charger performance. the charger srt 8 is a badass car as far as performance. and word is that there will be some kind of duel supercharger model. i am looking forword to that quite a bit. also the new mustang should be a tough competitor as well to bad i'm not a mustang fan my uncle owns 4 ford dealerships in the bay area i could get one for quite cheep :P

[phantomcobra]

The new Charger could have been another name and been perfectly fine. Like call it a Magnum??? LOL It looks just like one.

It is NOT a Charger in ANY sense of the word. It is a fine sports car but that is it. Now if they wanted to bring back the Charger, what I would have done is called this 4 door vehicle a Coronet. And then made a 2 door performance package and call it a Charger. Look like the old or not, at least it would have held true to the Charger name and concept.

For those who say the old body style doesn't work. The Mustang makers are laughing all the way to the bank and obviously, looking at the new Challenger, Dodge got the hint. They say the Challenger was on the drawing board before the latest Mustang change but just the fact that Mustang continues great sales must have told them something when there wasn't a lot of clamor for the Charger.

Incidentally, I went down with MY Charger to look at the new one. The ENTIRE sales staff and the prospective customers ALL came over to look (and I wasn't out front being obvious!!). How many were standing around looking at the new Chargers? NONE!

And for the ones who say the new one is competition for the old? You obviously have never driven the old ones. I haven't had the chance to do a red light race with the new Charger because there aren't enough on the road to find one! However, I did a race with a 5.7 Hemi truck. I gave him the head start and STILL cleaned his clock. Across a 4 lane intersection with him starting first, I was a car length ahead of him before we hit the far crosswalk and my car isn't a Hemi.