2005 SV6 ABS failure

[NateNBeckie]

Last week, every time the traction control kicked in, the ABS and TC light came on, and the DIC would flash "Service Traction System" and "Service ABS System." Just like the owners manual states, if I turned the key off and then back on, the lights and messages went away. I figured it would be ok until I got it to the dealer, and that it was a TC issue, not an ABS issue. That it was giving me the ABS errror since they're part of the TC system.

Well, my ABS failed yesterday in the middle of a moderatly hard stop.

I was making an emergeny stop, pulling off to the side of the road. I stepped on the brakes, the anti-locks kicked in for about 1 second.

Suddenly, the anti-locks stopped working, all 4 wheels locked up hard, and I ended up hitting an 8" curb at about 35 MPH head on with the wheels locked up. I completely tore up the front end. The front tires popped, they are against the rear of the wheel wells, the wheels are bent to piss, the frame is bent (body lines don't line up any more), the cradle is bent, I'm pretty sure I sent the struts through the towers, and I'm pretty sure the trans is hosed.

It went completely uncontrollable when they locked up. The worst part was the ABS was working, so I already had my foot on the brake pretty hard, then they stopped so my foot went even harder on them trying to stop when it stopped stopping. I would have had control had it never had ABS, but the situation of it braking like it's supposed to, then suddenly going uncontrollable changes things. The skid marks are so thick that you can't even see tread lines. It's just all black. And looking at the skidmarks, you can see the van started to go sideways.

And my whole family was in the van, and we were on our way to Pittsburg to drop off my daughter.

The cop was cool, he was on our side about this being all GMs fault. I would have made it had the van stayed controlled.

Everyone's ok BTW. Just a lot of emotions.

Screw GM and this POS van. And they're trying to put the claim on my insurance, but they're saying "we'll see." Between the police repot saying the ABS failed (the cop witnessed the ABS light and message), the skidmarks, and the EDR should have the recorded data, they're not going to win. The insurance company will fight this to the end and win. I now have the NHTSA involved as well.











Nate

[cdru]

First, I'm glad that everyone is ok. I know from first hand experience when you are expecting something is there and it ends up not being there it can really catch you off guard. I do have a few comments though.

Originally Posted by NateNBeckie

Last week, every time the traction control kicked in, the ABS and TC light came on, and the DIC would flash "Service Traction System" and "Service ABS System." Just like the owners manual states, if I turned the key off and then back on, the lights and messages went away. I figured it would be ok until I got it to the dealer, and that it was a TC issue, not an ABS issue. That it was giving me the ABS errror since they're part of the TC system.

So the vehicle detected a fault, yet you still continued to drive with it knowing that something could go wrong. While I'm not excusing anyone's liability, it sounds like you dropped the ball here. The traction control and ABS system are linked in several areas.

The wheel speed sensor is probably the biggest area and my guess where the problem was at. The sensor monitors how fast the wheel is spinning in relation to other wheels. If it detects one wheel spinning faster, TC is applied, applying slight breaking force to that wheel as well as reducing engine speed. If one wheel slows down/locks up in comparison to others, then ABS kicks in and releases breaking pressure slightly. If the computer doesn't get a signal from the sensor or it detects a flaw, it goes into a safety mode where you still have breaks (as you found out) but not necessarily ABS or TSC. This is the preferred way as compared to a malfunctioning system that could create a hazard if it suddently kicks in when it's not suppose to.

Screw GM and this POS van. And they're trying to put the claim on my insurance, but they're saying "we'll see." Between the police repot saying the ABS failed (the cop witnessed the ABS light and message), the skidmarks, and the EDR should have the recorded data, they're not going to win. The insurance company will fight this to the end and win. I now have the NHTSA involved as well.

And GM shouldn't have to pay. The accident was a result of your driving into the curb. It wasn't GM's fault you hit the curb. It remains to be seen what the fault in the ABC/TCS system was, but you did not lose breaking power, only antilock breaks. The fact that you didn't take it to the dealership, likely with the vehicle still under warranty, further reduces GM's liablity if they had any.

I'm no crash scene expert, but even if the ABS was working, I don't think the outcome would have been that much different. If you were still going 35 MPH when you hit the curb, there would have been no way you could have safely managed that turn even with ABS. Your speed might have been slightly lower but you still would have hit that curb hard.

Chalk it up to a learning experience and realize that you are paying for insurance just for circumstances like this. Of course your insurance company is going to try to fight it, but I don't think they are going to win. Even if it does win, it's still a mark on your record.

While this isn't necessarily geared towards just you, your post borught up a petpeeve of mine. People need to take responsibility, or at least realize, that not every problem that they encounter is a direct responsibility of the manufacurer of the product. Life throws you a curve sometimes. Get over and get on with it. Someone with a Ford or Toyota minivan could have the exact same thing happen to it. It's not a direct result of a "POS van". A problem on 1, 2 or 10 isn't exactly an epidemic when you consider several million of those parts are out there.

[NateNBeckie]

Originally Posted by cdru

So the vehicle detected a fault, yet you still continued to drive with it knowing that something could go wrong. While I'm not excusing anyone's liability, it sounds like you dropped the ball here. The traction control and ABS system are linked in several areas.

Does everyone think everyone is made of time or something? I don't have time to run this thing to the dealer every 5 seconds because something is wrong with it. "OMG THE LIGHT CAME ON, I'D BETTER DROP EVERYTHING AND DRIVE TO THE DEALER!!!111" Come on back to the real world for a second. Yes,taking it to the dealer would have been ideal, but it had just started doing this not even a week and a half before this happened. Besides that, I did just what the owners manual said. Turn the key off to reset the system. Restart the vehicle and the lights and errors should go out. If not, take it in for service. If the ABS was failing at any time, a simple turn of the key should not have reset the errors.

And GM shouldn't have to pay. The accident was a result of your driving into the curb. It wasn't GM's fault you hit the curb. It remains to be seen what the fault in the ABC/TCS system was, but you did not lose breaking power, only antilock breaks. The fact that you didn't take it to the dealership, likely with the vehicle still under warranty, further reduces GM's liablity if they had any.

No, the accident was the result of everything being fine, I had it under control, then it just stopped stopping because the wheels locked up. I've probably driven more in the last 10 years than you will in your life, and I am well aware of my vehicles, surrounings and the situations I'm in. The only accident I've been in since I got my licence wasn't even my fault. I know I had it under control and had plenty of room to make the slowdown and the turn.

And equipment failure puts the blame on GM plain and simple. Had the vehicle had no ABS to begin with I would have handled the situation differently. But the fact that everything was under control the suddenly things go completely arry because the system failed in the middle of the stop makes it GMs responsibility.

I'm no crash scene expert, but even if the ABS was working, I don't think the outcome would have been that much different. If you were still going 35 MPH when you hit the curb, there would have been no way you could have safely managed that turn even with ABS. Your speed might have been slightly lower but you still would have hit that curb hard.

Uhm, I was still going 35 when I hit the curb because on a vehicle that's 4100 + lbs loaded, when the wheels lock up it's not going to slow down very much. Do you not see how far back the first set of skidmarks are? There was more than enough time.

While this isn't necessarily geared towards just you, your post borught up a petpeeve of mine. People need to take responsibility, or at least realize, that not every problem that they encounter is a direct responsibility of the manufacurer of the product. Life throws you a curve sometimes. Get over and get on with it. Someone with a Ford or Toyota minivan could have the exact same thing happen to it. It's not a direct result of a "POS van". A problem on 1, 2 or 10 isn't exactly an epidemic when you consider several million of those parts are out there.

Don't patronize me and talk to me about life throwing me curves. My life has been nothing but curves. Don't talk to me about not taking responsibility for things. Taking responsibility for my own bull crap is all I do and I beat myself up about it every day.

And yes, this thing is a POS. It's been nothing but problems since the day I drove it off the lot. The dealer supposedly fixed most of my problems, but the problems are all coming back. Then this happens. Do you really think with the holidays, my daughter being here from Michigan for only a week, having to work, and everything else going on in my life I had time in a week and a half to get it to the dealer?

And do you really think that the ABS system errors should have simply gone away with the turn of the key if the error was that serious?

You don't know me or what my life is about so don't tell me about taking responsibility for things.

Here's a pet pieve of mine...know-it-alls that don't know their asses from a hole in the ground.

Nate