Swapping a '93 S.O.H.C. W/ a '93 D.O.H.C.-- What needs to be done?

[D.O.H.C. MAD]

The following is a e-mail I sent to Summit Racing on 8-9-05.

I have a '93 Grand Am W/ a S.O.H.C 2.3L.Needless to say the head is
shot. My ? is what kind of modifications will I have to make to any
sensors (MAF) or to anything else to implant a D.O.H.C. 2.4L? I know that
engine mounting brackets will be differant but I'm not sure about anything
else. If someone on your staff woundn't know about this, is there a web
site I can log into to find out what I need to make this swap work.



Respectfully,

Phil
This is the responce I recieved.

Response (A.C.) - 08/09/2005 01:09 PM
Phil,
I've checked with others in the Tech Department, but none of us seem to
have any information on a swap of this nature. The following site,
however, may contain some of the information you are looking for.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/f385-3.htm

Can anyone shed some light on this for me.
I also may have the option in the near future to put this D.O.H.C. in a '94 GA. I have heard that this is not possiable.? But this also came from a garage that is being sued for fraud for swapping a whole motor and charging my brother-in-law a multitude of parts and labor. Yes, this is the '94 GA I was talking about earlier. My red flag went up when he told me that they have to replace 1 (one) piston! Well anyway any and all would be great! Thanks.
Respectfully,
Phil

[GTP Dad]

Phil, any swap is a possibility if you have the time, patience and money!!! To swap the DOHC 2.4 into your car you will need a host of items, including engine, motor mounts, complete wiring harness, computer, exhaust system, possibly the transmission and a whole lot of time an patience. Of course money will also help. With a 93 you would probably be better off putting another sohc in and selling the car and purchasing another vehicle with a V6 if you want additional performance from this vehicle. The 2.4 has problems of its own that you may not want to put up with. Just my 2 cents!

Welcome to AF!

[richtazz]

I agree with GTP, the swap isn't worth it. Sell the car and get one with a V-6, as any GM motor dubbed Quad-anything is a piece of doody. Also, you stated swapping a 93 SOHC with a 93 DOHC, both are 2.3 liters. The 2.4 vin-T wasn't produced until 95.

[catback23]

Originally Posted by richtazz

I agree with GTP, the swap isn't worth it. Sell the car and get one with a V-6, as any GM motor dubbed Quad-anything is a piece of doody. Also, you stated swapping a 93 SOHC with a 93 DOHC, both are 2.3 liters. The 2.4 vin-T wasn't produced until 95.

The 2.3 DOHC HO isn't doody neither is the W41

[97grandamld9]

Originally Posted by richtazz

I agree with GTP, the swap isn't worth it. Sell the car and get one with a V-6, as any GM motor dubbed Quad-anything is a piece of doody. Also, you stated swapping a 93 SOHC with a 93 DOHC, both are 2.3 liters. The 2.4 vin-T wasn't produced until 95.

Wrong, you can swap to a 180hp 2.3L Quad 4 HO or even a 190hp 2.3L quad4 W41. Wrong agian, the SOHC motor is why the quad fmaily is though to be bad. The 60 and 90 degree GM motors have their share of problems as well. And one more time your wrong, the 2.4L Twin Cam (LD9) was made in 1996 NOT 1995.

[skibum1111]

If you decide to do this swap try to find a car thats in the wrecking yard because of an accident, get a running car and take it apart. If you go 2.3 sohc to a 2.3 dohc you will need the engine harness, dash harness, ecm, instrument cluster if its different, transmission and axle shafts if its a different year, and alot of foul language and sweat as its physically a difficult job. With a few mods a 2.3 dohc can produce well over 200hp, just search around and find them like port and polish the head, a header, cai, etc. Good luck.

[richtazz]

The 2.4 Vin-t is as big a piece of junk as both the 2.3 SOHC and DOHC engines were. I work at an AC-Delco distributor that used to have a machine shop as well, and Delco no longer offers the either version of the 2.3 or the 2.4 as a reman engine because of reliability issues. We had a company that offered a warranty on the engines our machine shop rebuilt(essentially an insurance policy) but didn't offer it on any Quad-4 for the same reason. I was mistaken on the first year of the 2.4, I forgot they changed the Cavailer/Sunbird/Sunfire body in 95, but didn't switch to the 2.4 until 96. The DOHC quad-4's were just as unreliable as the SOHC, period. I still stand behind my first statement that the swap isn't worth it. The DOHC makes all it's power at high RPM, where the V-6 makes more power lower in the lower RPM range. As Carroll Shelby once said, HP sells cars, Torque rules on the street. I see no point to doing this swap, as the investment (both monetarily and labor wise) isn't worth the gain.

[catback23]

Originally Posted by richtazz

The 2.4 Vin-t is as big a piece of junk as both the 2.3 SOHC and DOHC engines were. I work at an AC-Delco distributor that used to have a machine shop as well, and Delco no longer offers the either version of the 2.3 or the 2.4 as a reman engine because of reliability issues. We had a company that offered a warranty on the engines our machine shop rebuilt(essentially an insurance policy) but didn't offer it on any Quad-4 for the same reason. I was mistaken on the first year of the 2.4, I forgot they changed the Cavailer/Sunbird/Sunfire body in 95, but didn't switch to the 2.4 until 96. The DOHC quad-4's were just as unreliable as the SOHC, period. I still stand behind my first statement that the swap isn't worth it. The DOHC makes all it's power at high RPM, where the V-6 makes more power lower in the lower RPM range. As Carroll Shelby once said, HP sells cars, Torque rules on the street. I see no point to doing this swap, as the investment (both monetarily and labor wise) isn't worth the gain.

If that carroll shelby quote was true all muscle cars would be diesel, torque gets you moving, HP is what gets you moving fast. Also if you had a 2.3 SOHC and then a 2.3 DOHC HO or W41 you'd know the gain is worth it...the labor isn't as intensive as changing from a Quad 4 to a 3x00

[skibum1111]

If the 2.3 dohc is crap, how come I have almost 250,000 on mine with minimal work? How come most of the dohc cars are still on the road? I think you are mistaken, the 2.3 sohc has given the quads a bad reputation, most of the sohc cars in the yards are because the motors are crap, but the dohc cars that are in the yards are usually due to accident or rust.

And before I forget, don't tell me that its because I'm lucky, luck has nothing to do with it. My car has been maintained since it was new, that might have something to do with it.

[xeroinfinity]

all that swaping, money and foul lang. you'd be better off buying a Trans AM with a Big V8.

[97grandamld9]

Originally Posted by richtazz

The 2.4 Vin-t is as big a piece of junk as both the 2.3 SOHC and DOHC engines were. I work at an AC-Delco distributor that used to have a machine shop as well, and Delco no longer offers the either version of the 2.3 or the 2.4 as a reman engine because of reliability issues. We had a company that offered a warranty on the engines our machine shop rebuilt(essentially an insurance policy) but didn't offer it on any Quad-4 for the same reason. I was mistaken on the first year of the 2.4, I forgot they changed the Cavailer/Sunbird/Sunfire body in 95, but didn't switch to the 2.4 until 96. The DOHC quad-4's were just as unreliable as the SOHC, period. I still stand behind my first statement that the swap isn't worth it. The DOHC makes all it's power at high RPM, where the V-6 makes more power lower in the lower RPM range. As Carroll Shelby once said, HP sells cars, Torque rules on the street. I see no point to doing this swap, as the investment (both monetarily and labor wise) isn't worth the gain.

If you belive that the SOHC is just as reliable as the DOHC you know nothing about the quad4. The problem with the SOHC (because of its design) is head warpage and head cracking issues, thats why GM only made the motor for 2 years. Now the early quad 4's (late 80s) had a headgasket issue to, BUT this was fixed and is less common on anything from 90-95. The 2.4L's biggest problem is when it is run low on oil it will usally spin the #3 bearing (if you run any motor low on oil something bad will hapen) other then that the motor doesnt have any other common problems. Now what about the 3x00 motor, those are no better then a quad 4, they blow the lower LIM gasket all the time, but yet you recommend these motors?

I dont see it as a problem if the Q4 make its power higher up, its a 4 cylinder thats normal. The fastest grand ams have some type of quad 4 in them (besides of course some custom V8 drag car)

And about investing money into a car that "isnt worth the gain" is assinine. Tell that to all the guys who swapped motors into civics and run 10s with them. Granted when they started modding civics people though they were retarded, and they werent the fastest things around, now look at that whole scene.

[richtazz]

I'm not recommending the V-6, but I'd rather change an intake gasket and have a motor good for another 200k, than a high-revving engine with more serious inherent problems. The DOHC was better than the SOHC, but still not a "good" motor.

[gmack221]

DOHC mad, if you read past the agression in these post there is some good information in there, your question brought up some interesting points about the quad 4, when the water pump fails you take a chance of warping or cracking a head if you overheat the motor (doesn't matter what motor SOHC or DOHC, just like any aluminum head), any 4 cylinder motor makes it power with higher rpms (at higher rpms you will wear out bearings quicker on the rods and crank), and no matter what a swap will be alot of work (wiring harnesses, computer, possibly transmission, sensors, ect...).

If your set on trying to save money at the pump and are willing to put in the time and deal with the flustrations a 2.3l dohc can be a reliable motor with enough work and money for parts. My suggestion is if your going to do this find a motor in a running car and talk to the yard about what you will need (these guys gave you a pretty good idea) and work a deal with getting everything off that one car.

Also asking specific questions like "I have a 93 grand am with a 2.3 SOHC motor with a 3 speed auto and was going to swap out with a motor from a 94 2.3 DOHC, what will I have to change to make it fit in my car?" give lots of details, it helps the readers understand, why do you want the dohc, did someone give you one? power gain... ect.

by the way here is a good link to info about quad 4 motors I came acrossed that has casting numbers, info about when the changes were made, and pictures. good luck

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar40032.htm

[97grandamld9]

Originally Posted by richtazz

I'm not recommending the V-6, but I'd rather change an intake gasket and have a motor good for another 200k, than a high-revving engine with more serious inherent problems. The DOHC was better than the SOHC, but still not a "good" motor.

But not all people are like that, people run cars hard, and run them hard when the car has problems b/c they dont care, dont know how to fix it, or dont have the money to have someone fix it. So say someone is running with a bad intake manifold gasket on a 3x00 motor, there getting coolant everywhere in the motor, and it will get to the oil, after that theres a good chance there going to spin a bearing, and the engine is done for.