1990 Caravan head gasket merry-go-round

toni1595 · #1 06-06-2004, 11:50 AM

Hello all. I am new to this forum and would like to ask some of you a question about a Caravan's head gasket. What the deal is, is that we had a 1990 Caravan that we sold last year to a friend of ours and the head gasket is bad again and I will be helping him out changing it. This is the fourth time that it will have been done. The first time it was done by a local mechanic and it lasted about a year. I did it the second time and neglected to replace the head bolts, which I did not realize had to be done everytime the gasket is replaced, and it may have lasted 6 months. The last time I did it I did replaced the bolts and it lasted about 7 months.Now my friend shows up and says it is blowing steam out of the tailpipe.Guess what, gasket time again!! My question is, how in the heck does anyone keep a head gasket in one of these things? I followed the instructions to the letter, with the torque settings, checking the flatness of the head with a straightedge,new bolts. Any ideas? Thanx, Toni.

Yes, I know I'm not obligated to help him with this repair, but, he is disabled and is on a fixed income.......

slantsixness · #2 06-07-2004, 06:34 AM

I'm assuming it's a 4cyl van:

Change the head bolts.
Check the head for flatness (metal rule straight edge)
Have it cut, only if obviously way out of flat.
Torque them in sequence (follow the factory manual)
start the car.
run 10 minutes (until warm)
RETORQUE EVERYTHING in sequence again.
Now put it back together.

Be DARN sure the fans are working properly.

only buy headbolts that come in a set, and directly from dodge(any Diamler-Chrysler dealer), or you'll be sorry again. Come to think of it, buy the gasket at dodge, too.
STAY AWAY from the NO-NAME crap at "Auto"Z"" and other "box" retailers.

Should run forever....

... unless the guy is beating up on it...

Slantsixness

toni1595 · #3 06-07-2004, 07:15 PM

Yes you are correct it is a 2.5L 4 cyl. And I did the flatness check with the straightedge and it was o.k. I did not run the engine for 10 minutes and retorque though. I didn't know it was necessary. Do you leave the valve cover off when you do that or will it blow out too much oil? Yes I'm quite sure the fan is working and no this guy wouldn't beat on his vehicles at all. He is quite fussy when it comes to his cars. On another note, he called me this afternoon and said he was thinking about swapping out his engine for another. But this new one was a 2.2 Liter and not the 2.5 Liter. Do you think that this engine will bolt up alright to the tranny? Anyway thanks for your input thus far.

slantsixness · #4 06-08-2004, 10:02 AM

Don't rev it too much, and it won't spray much.
I usually just place the cover or windage tray(if you have one) over the galley.

Don't forget to plug the pcv hole so it stays running!

Second torque is critical, as it's done with a hot engine. Just do the last part of the torque sequence...
You should be torquing it to 45ft.lbs, then 60, then 90. After warm just do the 90Lbs after its warm and it'll last forever. This procedure straightens out any imperfections in the head mating suface too.

I'm thinking about this straight from memory, but I think the 45/60/90 is right. just start low and follow sequence, then medium, then high... then warm and high again.
Dont torque with the motor running (of course!)

If a new engine is an option, the 2.2L will fit without any problems, but a standard 2.2 (non turbo)will have less power.
Mostly, 2.2 and 2.5's are interchangeable from '87-93 cars, or vans.
the sensors and vacuum lines/emissions system should be kept from the original van though. That keeps it simple.
On a used engine, I would consider a timing belt, new head gasket and all the other pan gaskets and seals, if money isn't too tight. That would ensure the used motor the maximum life expectancy.

Slantsixness

toni1595 · #5 06-09-2004, 07:57 PM

I think the sequence was 45,65 and then a quarter turn, again from memory. I know you can feel the bolt really stretch on the last of it. It feels like its going to break off but it doesn't............ Ya there was a little cover that went under the valve cover. I'm not sure what it is for, maybe to keep the oil from splashing around too much........ He seems pretty intent on the engine change. I think he is planning on doing it that way where this engine has a history of head gasket failures. He'll probably go the cheapest route as he is on a fixed income. Of course any used engine is a crap shoot at best, in my humble opinion......Appreciate the info., you have been a big help.

toni1595 · #6 09-15-2004, 08:00 PM

Hello again. Well my friend is back with the old Caravan and he has bought a wrecked Dodge sedan with a 2.2L engine in it. He had it towed up here tonight and had it running... it does sound pretty smooth. He has a question on the fuel supply. He has heard that the 2.5L will supply too much gas for the 2.2L and it will run rich. Does this sound right to you guys? He should probably try to keep as much of the original electronic controls as possible with the exchanged motor, it would seem that that would be the most sensible thing to do, correct?? As far as the fuel supply goes that does make sense to me. But maybe the computer can compensate?? Thanx, Toni.

toni1595 · #7 07-16-2005, 03:32 PM

Well here it is 2005 and we are just getting around to doing the motor swap.............. We now have the 2.5L out and are getting ready to pull the 2.2L out of the Dodge Shadow. It is a 1992, but the motor thats in there is not the original either and were not sure how to check for the exact year, does anyone know if there is a way to check??
There is a few physical differences in the two motors, but the basic design looks about the same. Things like the breather, coil, alternator,are not the same. The engine mounts are in the same position and the tranny mounts I think are similar. It looks like the carb./injector unit is different. Does anyone know if we should keep the original or put the one that came with the 2.2L? And we also are wondering if we should keep the computer in the 2.5L or use the one that's in the 2.2L?

I guess there are alot of "ifs" here. Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks, Toni.

toni1595 · #8 09-04-2005, 08:16 AM

Just to put a closing on this post. We made the swap and it went off without a hitch. We did change the ECM's and throttle bodies. Other than that it went in with no problems. Last I heard he had sold the van and it was running good,so I guess you could call it a win. Toni.

waltham41 · #9 09-04-2005, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toni1595

Just to put a closing on this post. We made the swap and it went off without a hitch. We did change the ECM's and throttle bodies. Other than that it went in with no problems. Last I heard he had sold the van and it was running good,so I guess you could call it a win. Toni.

All that work and bother and then he sold the van? What was the purpose in that?

toni1595 · #10 09-06-2005, 02:46 PM

Well the guy that bought it is disabled and legally he can't drive it anyway. He bought it originally for his wife who ended up passing away at the end of the year and he wanted to get it into a saleable condition so he could get rid of it. I really didn't want him to buy it because of all the head gasket problems we had with it but, he knew the van and was bound that he could straighten it out. I guess a different engine did the trick. Hopefully we won't see it again.

neon_rt · #11 09-06-2005, 03:34 PM

The head bolts for the 2.2/2.5 's are one time use only. They are stretch bolts, that is why you torque to spec and then 1/4 turn. If you reuse them when they are already stretched the head won't stay sealed. Also, don't re-torque them, it can cause the block to crack. If you have the head off again you may want to check for a hairline crack in the cylinders. The crack usually starts at the top near the head bolt hole and extends down.

waltham41 · #12 09-06-2005, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toni1595

Well the guy that bought it is disabled and legally he can't drive it anyway. He bought it originally for his wife who ended up passing away at the end of the year and he wanted to get it into a saleable condition so he could get rid of it. I really didn't want him to buy it because of all the head gasket problems we had with it but, he knew the van and was bound that he could straighten it out. I guess a different engine did the trick. Hopefully we won't see it again.

Thats really sad to hear, I hope things work out as best as possible for your friend.

toni1595 · #13 09-06-2005, 08:24 PM

Yes, he is disabled but he don't let it get him down. You would be amazed what this guy can do. He still has one good arm and leg and he makes the best of them. Of course a measured amount of alcohol kind of keeps him on an even keel, if you know what I mean....... His wifes passing was sad though. Had cancer in the lung and at the end it was in her brain. Very bad..... It does give us reason to count our blessings, especially with the troubles in the Gulf Coast region on the U.S.

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