My '97 has one foot in the grave

[tranprop]

I've had my 97 for almost 2 years. It is my wife's daily driver which now has 90,000. We have had several coolant issues and paid for a few repairs over the last year. The tubes at the water pump were leaking, then a heater hose between the engine and firewall leaked intermittantly. Now it just consumes coolant without leaving any on the floor. We have also watched the temp climb on occasion, though only once into the red, at which time we stopped and rented a car. Next day drove it home at 200 degrees the entire way. Two different shops have diagnosed blown head gasket. The first found combustion gasses in the coolant. The second did a pressure test which was conducted as follows: Install the tester on the coolant reservoir with the engine cold and watch pressure as the car warms up. Pressure should rise after the engine heats up and the coolant expands. The pressure went to 12 lbs in 2 minutes with the coolant still only warm. This indicates cylinder pressure leaking into the coolant. They pulled the plugs and found that 2 cylinders on each bank showed signs of burning coolant. So both head gaskets are blown. The strange thing is that I can smell coolant in the garage after the car has been parked a few hours.

I was told that when this happens, the block is usually what has warped and doing a head and gasket job is fruitless......will last only a short time. Add to that the potential head bolt issue especially on '97's, and the cost keeps rising. So, the repair cost is greater than the value of the car. We are inclined to use a stop leak (or rather slow down leak) product and keep driving it till it dies. What a sad thing. We both love the car and it is in super shape other wise. Our integrity would never allow us to sell or trade it without informing the buyer of this problem.

I have made this post lengthly because after reading every thread about coolant, I wanted to archive my experience for others in the future.

Anyone have any insight or advise? Has anyone had any real success with a stop leak product? I know that the recomended route is the walnut pellets, but that is more preventative than a stop leak thing. At this point since the car isn't worth even a grand, long term harm to the engine is not a concern. We just want to get as many more months from her as possable.

Thanks, Dave in Florida

[griffey]

I hate to ask a question, but how much coolant is it consuming?

I have a 1997 Aurora with 105,000 miles and it runs (as far as I'm concerned) too hot--and always has. On the highway it sticks to 200 degrees, but try to run the kids through McDonald's (in summer or winter) and it creeps upwards. I keep an eye on the road and an eye on the temperature gauge. At any rate...

I would guess that using a stop-leak product in your car would be a bad idea, but I'm a computer geek and not a true car know-it-all.

I'd take it to a GM dealer and ask them what's up.

Good luck.

G.--

[Autobanaurora]

It would seem to me you would at least get a service engine soon light. I would get one more opinion. The scent of anti-freeze indicates the presence of anti-freeze, even if it doesn't leak on the floor. Don't be discouraged with the old "replace the motor" hype. It isn't that difficult to put new head gaskets on the Aurora, regardless of aluminum. (You think GM didn't consider removing the head for repairs?) Yes, you can go and buy a brand new crate motor, but 90,000 miles doesn't seem like reason to replace the motor. Consuming anti-freeze is like dropping a bolt into the chamber and firing. Solids have to go somewhere, in this case right through the block. Do you have anti-freeze in the oil? Bubbles anything? I find it hard to believe this car is consuming anything. A leak maybe, if you were low on coolant that would explain the HOT condition. Have the compression checked as I seen no mention. If the head gaskets are leaking, surely you would have less compression.

I had a water pump leaking with no indication or coolant on floor. Took the dealer all day to find the leak. The smell was always there.

If it was my Aurora and I planned on keeping the car, I would have the head gaskets replaced if that is the problem. Don't believe anyone when they say you can't do it because I know GM employees that have made the repair on a weekend with no problems. One has 263,000 miles.

Good luck.

[bridget36907]

Originally Posted by griffey

I hate to ask a question, but how much coolant is it consuming?

I have a 1997 Aurora with 105,000 miles and it runs (as far as I'm concerned) too hot--and always has. On the highway it sticks to 200 degrees, but try to run the kids through McDonald's (in summer or winter) and it creeps upwards. I keep an eye on the road and an eye on the temperature gauge. At any rate...

I would guess that using a stop-leak product in your car would be a bad idea, but I'm a computer geek and not a true car know-it-all.

I'd take it to a GM dealer and ask them what's up.

Good luck.

G.--

Great info.. Get another opinion. I had overheating issues and was all hyped up to take out the engine. i took it to the dealer for a diagnostics and it enede up being the radiator partly blocked.

I know these cars may have issues with overheating beacuse of the headgasket issues but sometimes ordinary things happen to cause problems too. and i would have have been very anrgy if i had spent x amount of dollars to replace a headgasket and still had over heating issues.

just my 2 cents.

[tranprop]

I didn't want to believe the first mechanic, that's why I got the second opinion. Maybe I'm too hasty. Funny, I have a weekend toy.....it is a 2600lb Triumph TR7 from the mid 70's. I put a Mustang 5.0 motor and 5 speed tranny in it. Took lots of modifications and inginuity. To say that it is enthusastic in it's acceleration is an understatement. There is no computer, it is carburated, and relatively easy to troubleshoot. When I open the hood of the Aurora, I'm not really intimidated, it just feels hopeless to troubleshoot. There is so much technology that this old school guy is not familiar with.

The thing is that 3 tests have indicated blown head gasket: 1. Combustion gas in coolant. 2. Reading the spark plugs. 3. Coolant system developing pressure after only a few minutes running when cool. When coolant is leaking into a cylinder, can't it burn off and exit with the exhaust and not show up in the oil?

When my Dodge Caravan was consuming coolant, we did a pressure test on it but in a different way. We pumped it up to 15lbs and watched the gauge.....it dropped fairly quickly and I could not find any leak. Did it a second time right away and it dropped again. When we cranked the engine it was hydrolocked.......one cylinder was full of water. Had to pull the plugs and crank it to pump out the coolant. That was definately a head gasket. This method has not been done on this Aurora. I suppose that I could try that.

[tranprop]

OK so here's another argument for not giving up too soon. There is no coolant in the oil, in fact it was 1/2 quart low and clean. I opened the coolant cap and there was considerable pressure in the system. My wife drove home about 2 hours ago. SO........if I really have 2 blown head gaskets, why isn't the pressure relieved by forcing coolant into the cylinders within the two hours the car just sat after driving?

I don't smell any coolant, There was some oil droplets in the coolant reservoir, and The coolant level wasn't low.

Hard to diagnose an intermittant problem.

[griffey]

My aurora uses oil. (That is, it isn't dripping on the garage floor, but I have to add a quart every now and then between changes, which I do myself).

It also runs hot. Now that it is 90+ degrees outside, the temp gauge is always over 200 after the car heats up.

I'm not losing fluid. At least not to the ground--as far as I can tell. No oil or radiator fluid in the garage.

No smoke. No smell. And we haven't hit the red-line (temperature) yet.

We have a new radiator.

I'm guessing that our water pump is shot (and yours might be as well?).

If the radiator fluid is heating up and overflowing it will just do so while you are driving--so you won't see it in you garage, correct?

I have a feeling I'm going to be replacing my water pump soon, and I wouldn't be surprised if you might have to as well...



G.--

[97 silverbullet]

well if your head gasket is gone then you have the perfect canidate for the 4.6 swap.

[brihoo2k]

Originally Posted by 97 silverbullet

well if your head gasket is gone then you have the perfect canidate for the 4.6 swap.

Hey silverbullet did you ever do the 4.6 swap? Just curious because I remember reading a while back that you had a 4.6 and needed a canidate

[97 silverbullet]

im waiting for my 4.0 to kick the bucket it just keeps on goin with 190 k Im still running it hard I have all the parts to get it done just need a reason to. lol

[dmorlow]

You can't use something like stop leak to stop a leak inside your engine. Stop leak is for leaks that are in the radiator that are small pinhole type leaks. Just do like I did. I had a 95 Aurora. It was cheaper for me to sell it and buy a 2004 Chevy Impala. I was spending more on repairs on the 95 Aurora than it cost me to buy a new car. Auroras are endless money buckets. You fix one thing and something else breaks within a week or two. Within the last few months of me owning the Aurora, I put about $2,000 in repairs in many different things. I loved the car for the options and the pep, but they are just compelety unreliable. One of the worse mistakes was for me to buy that car. I spent well over $7,000 in repairs on a car that only cost me $5,000.