TwEECer vs. SCT vs. PIH update.

SVTcobra306 · #1 05-13-2005, 06:12 PM

Well, the TwEECer is in. Anyone who prefers SCT over this needs shot. I decided this about 2 seconds after I got Calcon up and running, and took a look at my realtime datalogging info. Figured out in the first mile that my ECT sensor was bad, stayed at 85 degrees while the Autometer went to 195.. Also running pretty rich, both O2's pegged 1V anytime the motor is in open loop. (gotta turn down my FP it seems...)

For PIH fans: I am right now running an A9L .bin file as my base tune, just to see if it would work. Getting it to idle took some work. I can do it with MAF transfer function, tell it that it has the 24s, but I lost patience for that and threw in a spare 24 lb cal'd Pro M that I had laying around (the joys of all the spare crap I have here). You could do this with a base TwEECer, you don't even need an R/T model for that. And it saves the wiring in of a fan controller, and there is no pin swapping, let alone trying to find a PIH harness in good condition these days....

Overall, I'm very satisfied with this thing. It should all be going on the dyno in June.

eillob · #2 05-16-2005, 12:03 AM

Cool, I thought you forgot about us I've been waiting on some results. I am a little curious though. You said that your were running an A9l program if I understand you right? If I did Im wondering how different that is from running an actual A9l conversion. The entire stratagy is different for an A9l so without changing the pinout or running a Pih computer harness how is the program able to compensate for an obvious difference in wiring.

My car ran horribly at idle. Once the PIH converision went on it ran 100% better and idled perfectly. Also for those keeping up with this thread I have since added an SCT flip chip which is something I didn't know if I was gonna be able to do with a PIH conversion. To make a long story short, they just programmed it like it was a 93 car.

SVTcobra306 · #3 05-16-2005, 06:03 PM

It runs the strategy just fine (or at least mine is). Whatever the TwEECer says it has, it runs off of, basically. The wiring change was internal to the A9L computer, not the programming.

Future303 · #4 05-21-2005, 06:31 PM

What I did was basically make the T4M0 Be as close to the A9L as possible, as far as Spark Advance is concerned. Also eliminated all the spark retards that plague the SN95's and played with a couple of other settings (calibrated for the 24lbs Injectors, etc.)

SVTcobra306 · #5 05-21-2005, 07:51 PM

Looks like I'm gonna have to do that too, getting some quirks now that I'm datalogging and stuff...

Hey Future...can you send me a straight up A9L file? I picked up an EEC tuner off Ebay and I'm gonna be playing with a buddy's 'Stang, and it's easier to read off the timing curve on an EEC tuner file vs. a TwEECer .bin file....

Future303 · #6 05-24-2005, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Hey Future...can you send me a straight up A9L file? I picked up an EEC tuner off Ebay and I'm gonna be playing with a buddy's 'Stang, and it's easier to read off the timing curve on an EEC tuner file vs. a TwEECer .bin file....

Hey dude, yeah I can send it to you if you like, but to be honest you can just download it from www.tweecer.com and take a look at it.

If you want me to send it to you though I can gladly do it for you. Let me know.

SVTcobra306 · #7 05-25-2005, 04:53 PM

I've already got the file from tweecer.com. I managed to download a J4J1 cal file from eec-tuner.com in some kind of text format, but can't get the same thing to work for the A9L....

Looks like we're causing somewhat of a stir in the corral forums with some of this stuff now, huh?

Future303 · #8 05-26-2005, 08:33 AM

Quote:

My car ran horribly at idle. Once the PIH converision went on it ran 100% better and idled perfectly. Also for those keeping up with this thread I have since added an SCT flip chip which is something I didn't know if I was gonna be able to do with a PIH conversion. To make a long story short, they just programmed it like it was a 93 car.

To be honest you didn't have to go thru an entire PIH Conversion. Unless your setup was completely radical (which guessing by your sig isn't really) I would have stayed with the stock computer and Tweeced it.

That's pretty much what I did, my first purchase was the EEC Tuner, then I started with my other mods.

Now that I'm getting deeper into my bolt ons, I am at a point that I have an idea of the things that need to be edited in the EEC to get it to work properly.

Quote:

I've already got the file from tweecer.com. I managed to download a J4J1 cal file from eec-tuner.com in some kind of text format, but can't get the same thing to work for the A9L....

Looks like we're causing somewhat of a stir in the corral forums with some of this stuff now, huh?

Hmm, ok I can get you the text files I have, but if you want to wait a couple of days, I am taking the time to do a serious comparison between the A9L and T4M0 tunes and will keep posting in Corral as I find key differences. Keep tuned.

P.S. Yeah it's about time someone started helping people new to the Tuners. I mean, from following erroneous advice I could have risked damaging my engine (with that whole "Tip In Retard" BS) In fact, I now have to run a compression test to make sure that my stuff is ok, will also keep you guys updated with that.

eillob · #9 05-26-2005, 08:34 PM

Well future I sort of agree with you. You are correct, my set up really isn't all that radical. But with a 94-95 car it doesn't have to get real radical for the computer to start acting up. As soon as I started putting things on like the cobra intake, roller rockers and heads my idle totally went to crap. Now if I knew then what I know now then the EEC tuner at this point would have been the way to go. The PIH conversion fixed my idle issues, bought power to the table plus allowed me to continue modding without any issues. So although it wasn't the best route to go it did fix the problem.

With the cost of the PIH and now the SCT chip i've obviously spent to much money to go back to a stock computer and an EEC tuner. However Im glad that we are getting this info to everyone else who might find themselves in the same boat. This car runs great, the chip seems to have maximized all the add ons to the car plus with it being a flip chip I now have different tunes for nitrous. My question about this EEC tuner is what if you have nitrous. Does this EEC tuner allow you to be able to switch programs on the fly when your ready to spray? How does that work?

SVTcobra306 · #10 05-28-2005, 12:12 AM

I haven't tried the tuner yet, but the TwEECer you can switch on the fly...

Future, I didn't hear about your "tip in retard BS", Please elaborate...

Future303 · #11 05-29-2005, 05:34 AM

Eillob- No you can't switch tunes on the fly with the EEC Tuner. However you can with the Tweecer.

I'm glad you got your setup working, that's what matters. I knew what I wanted with my car, and I am a take care of things myself kinda guy, so I figured "screw it, the tuner is the first purchase that way when my setup gets more radical I should be able to understand at least the basics". BTW Nitrous scares the #@%# outta me, I would rather toss in a blower/turbo in there, but that's me.

SVTcobra306 - You are probably familiar with the Tip In Retard that the SN95 EEC's do.

I was told by another poster in the other board that setting the Tip In to the #55 would disable the feature.

Guess what, it doesn't, in effect what it does is trigger the Spark Advance to 55 Degrees BTDC, and the worst part of all is that it OVERRIDES all the other tables for 1/3 of a second when you hit the throttle. I started to have horrible pinging, and I was dumb and never tied the two things together.

I don't think I've done any damage to the engine, I've been somewhat lucky in that I did everything possible to get the engine to run cool (180degree Tstat, flush Rad, 30/70 AF/Water, Water Wetter, and edit the ECT Fan settings to trigger sooner). Not only that, but I ran Seafoam like 4 times hoping it was just Carbon Buildup. I was still getting Pinging afterward, at which point I started suspecting the Tip In setting.

I I have had a Blower/Nitrous, for a FACT I would have blown something up with that advice I was given, I can count on my luck that my setup could tolerate some ping the way it is.

SVTcobra306 · #12 05-30-2005, 02:11 AM

I see. I set my Tip in retard to 0 IIRC, it might have been 1's. The high-speed enrichment is all 1s now.

I'm having to do a lot of research, though, the manual is really vague, and there isn't a lot of newbie help. I'm playing hell trying to simply get advice for adjusting for a 30 lb meter with 24 lb injectors, I'm having to do a lot of trial-and error. The advice given is too short and sweet, no in-depth or explanations, or definitions of terms for that matter...

Future303 · #13 05-30-2005, 07:52 AM

Hmm, ok. I know that the Terms used in the Tweecer are different than the ones in the EEC Tuner.

When you say 30lb Meter I am guessing you're talking about the MAF? if I may ask, why not just run a Stock MAF? Do you have the MAF Transfer Curve on paper? Even if you do, it's a bitch to replace the MAF Transfer Function into the Tweecer Setup and very Trial/Error.

If I remember correctly. you pretty much have a stock Cobra, other than the 2031 Cam and the Exhaust. Why the switch to the Aftermarket MAF?

As far as the Terms used in the EEC Tuner, for the Tip In Retard it has the following Command:

MIN_SPARK_TIP_IN 5
SPARK RETARD -15

What that means is that when you hit the throttle, the Timing will drop to 5 degrees BTDC, effectively killing your torque for a fraction of a second, and the EEC can pull out up to 15 degrees anytime it feels it's necessary.

Some genius was telling people that setting the Tip In to 55 would disable the feature, and now I know it doesn't, it just advances timing to 55 degrees BTDC, which has potential to cause damage, and if used on a Car with a Power Adder would CERTAINLY blow something up.

Shoot me a quick list of your mods, and what you need the car to do, maybe I can point you in the right direction as to what you need to mod man. Take it easy dude.

eillob · #14 05-30-2005, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVTcobra306

I see. I set my Tip in retard to 0 IIRC, it might have been 1's. The high-speed enrichment is all 1s now.

I'm having to do a lot of research, though, the manual is really vague, and there isn't a lot of newbie help. I'm playing hell trying to simply get advice for adjusting for a 30 lb meter with 24 lb injectors, I'm having to do a lot of trial-and error. The advice given is too short and sweet, no in-depth or explanations, or definitions of terms for that matter...

Ok clue me in a little here, why are you trying to get a 30lb meter to work with 24lb injectors.

I agree with the Future the stock unit seems to be the way to go.

SVTcobra306 · #15 05-30-2005, 12:33 PM

It's a little more than just a 2031...It's a 306 with a bit higher compression, and just about every bolt-on there is. I just don't advertise every single thing I've got in all my signatures.

I ran the 75 for a while with stock injectors, then cal'd it for 30's and ran it with them, now I'm back to 24's but Pro-M went out of business.

The 30 lb cal also allows more flexibility and room to grow once the MAF transfer is set properly. I'm doing a set of Tom Moss ported X's and lower intake in July, and a 125 shot shortly after that. I'll peg the stock electronics with that setup. I already have the 30 lb meter, but I'm running the stocker for right now. I just want to know how to do it for future reference...

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