04 TB service engine soon

[PawnofChaos]

SES light comes on somewhat frequently. May stay on for a few hours or a few days. Truck seems to hesitate and loose power at times while light is on. Can sometimes smell as if something is burning (rubber/plastic). Can't seem to get to the dealer before light goes out. Looking for help.

[sunspeck]

Call the Service Manager and tell him/her what is happening and that you can't seem to get it there before the light goes out. The next time it happens, stop the TB as soon as the light comes on and have it towed to the dealership with a towtruck that just lifts the rear tires, so that the back tires don't roll. They should be able to catch the problem and repair it. When our 03 TB was locking up in park, it would always be fine by the time we got it to them. The only way we could get it diagnosed was this way. The car hasn't done it since. Just a thought.

[GMMerlin]

Originally Posted by PawnofChaos

SES light comes on somewhat frequently. May stay on for a few hours or a few days. Truck seems to hesitate and loose power at times while light is on. Can sometimes smell as if something is burning (rubber/plastic). Can't seem to get to the dealer before light goes out. Looking for help.

If the SES light has come on, then there is a code stored in history along with some limited sensor information.
The code will lead towards what the problem is.
My suggestion would be to drop your vehicle at the dealer as soon as possible and let them take a look at it.
I would not drive it any more than necessary since you have a loss of power concern.

[PawnofChaos]

Originally Posted by GMMerlin

If the SES light has come on, then there is a code stored in history along with some limited sensor information.
The code will lead towards what the problem is.
My suggestion would be to drop your vehicle at the dealer as soon as possible and let them take a look at it.
I would not drive it any more than necessary since you have a loss of power concern.

It has been at the dealer once. They couldn't get it to act up. Also said they could find nothing wrong. This is why I'm trying to get it in with the light on. Thanks for the help. Much appreciated, GMMerlin

[markbair]

I had the SES light come on, and when I took it to the dealer, they said the car was running lean, but said they didn't find anything wrong, and they cleared the code. Any ideas why this would be? I would think there should be "something" wrong...I mean, heck, it threw a light. Who knows...I would think some sensor is acting up.

[GMMerlin]

Sometimes faults are intermittant and difficult to diagnose.
This becomes frustrating for the owner as well as the tech.
When the SES light comes on, it leaves a a code in the PCM..if for any reason the vehicle passes the next test of the componant, the light will go out, but there is still information stored to lead the tech into a general direction of what the fault was.
When the vehicle will not act up while in the service department, it makes it difficult to pinpoint the cause and correct it...there are 2 ways this can end up and both of them may lead to an unsatisfied customer
1. the tech can say no problem found at this time...which could be true, but you the consumer knows there is a problem and will not be satisfied with that......OR
2. the tech can make an attempt to try to repair the vehicle based on the information given from the code stored in the PCM...this is called a SWAG repair..it could very well fix the concern or it could have no impact and we are back to square one with a unsatisfied customer.

Many of the problems with todays vehicles isn't componant related, but electically related...loose connections cause more intermittant concerns that anything else and are a cause of many headaches for the tech who is trying to diagnose and repair the concern.

[markbair]

Thank GMMerlin. That makes sense.

[GMMerlin]

Originally Posted by cmjdisanto

The dealer I purchased the vehicle from and the two I have taken it to since have been able to find an issue or at least recreate a problem. When they contacted Tech support, they were told nothing was wrong and that they could no longer do anything for that problem. The selling dealer Service Manager made nine calls to the Tech line. They told him the system was normal. The dealership then said they would no longer perform any work related to this issue and I just had to live with the problem. One of the two support dealers I used replaced the actuator and the last replaced the control head, both actuators and doors for the heating issue. They all stated that General Motors has tied there hands and they could not fix my issue.
What would you do in a situation like this? Why does this situation happen and what can be done to correct it for all of us that have to go thru it and judging by this forum I am not the only one. The only difference is they are having different issues.

Not an easy question to answer.
There is a diffence between customer perception and vehicle operation.
Without starting a fight, some of the "problems" people post on here are perception problems..they believe their vehicle should operate a particular way instead of the way it is designed to operate.
With that being said, what happens when you come into the dealers service department is the tech checks the operation..we actually have a section called "description and operation" for everything on your vehicle.
If the componant is operating as designed..thats it, end of story..no repairs or repair attempts are to be made.
In some cases the tech will call TAC to inquire if there are any issues with said componant and if so, what does TAC recommend as a course of action.
Now you must understand that GM pays the repair bill for repairs on your vehicle...if the dealer does a repair outside the policies and procedures of GM then GM does not have to reimburse the dealer for the repair attempt.
A dealer who attempts a repair outside GMs P+Ps could get themselves in some seriously hot water with GM...in a nutshell, They are the BOSS!
Now as a GM tech, I have a plethra of information at my fingertips to help with diagnosis and repair of some extremely difficult repairs...GM service information, GM TAC, Field Engineers, GM STC and I am 1 of 3700 GM techs and Service Managers who subscribe to a forum designed to help with these problems.
GM tries to build vehicles to meet the demands and perceptions of their customers...when these are not met, customers tend to believe they have a problem..just like the Corvette guy you posted about in "Big Brother is watching" if you read his story you see that his main complaint (oil consumption) turned into 18 complaints by the time it came to a head.....all of the sudden, the things he was fine with became a problem when he felt that his demands were not being met..(come on..seat material worn and no-one sits in the seat....yea right)
GM and their dealers are committed to have a completely satisfied customer.
GM is committed to have its techs trained to the highest level possible.
I find it hard to believe some of the tales people here tell about their dealer and GM experiances (not saying that you couldn't have a bad experiance) because what they are claiming goes against everything GM preaches to its dealers...I think it comes down to the basic fact of perception vs. reality.

[GMMerlin]

A funny story in relation to this discussion.
Years ago we had a customer that was not satisfied with the paint on his new truck. The Service Manager, Dealer Owner, Body Shop Manager and the Painter all looked at the truck and could not find anything wrong...we offered to paint his vehicle and he refused and he called GM.
Our GM rep came down and met with the customer and they looked over the vehicle..the rep could not find anything wrong, but offered to paint the truck for the customer anyway..once a gain the customer refused and told the GM rep that he would be satisfied with nothing less than a "Factory paint job"...they went round and round out in the lot about the paint on the truck and the customer kept demanding a "Factory paint job"....finally when the GM rep was at his wits end he looked the guy straight in the eye and said "You got a factory paint job...how do you like it!"
The customer let us paint his truck


He totalled the truck 2 weeks later

[sunspeck]

Originally Posted by cmjdisanto

(I cut the original message for space)

I am not wanting to pick a fight either. I have enough of that happening elsewhere. I can comprehend what you are saying and I appreciate your reply yet that does not mean I can whole heartedly agree. Perception is 100% that persons reality and how I perceive the operation and approach by any dealership is the only reality I have.

My issue has been recognized as a legitimate complaint by all three dealerships I have been to. And even their perception is something is wrong, but they have been stopped by General Motors from completeing any further repairs.....

I agree with you. There is not need to pick fights about these SUVs. I hate to say it, but if you have documentation that three different dealers have determined that this is a problem and GM refuses to fix the problem, it might be time to take it a step further. The Chevrolet customer care department has some wonderful people who have been nothing less than kind about getting things fixed. Not little things like wearing out seats but function of the TB. You might have luck if you deal with them instead of the dealers.

[GMMerlin]

When a dealer attempts to make an adjustment or repair to a vehicle that attempt, in the customers eyes, is an admission of a problem.
This is where perception and reality come in.
GM designs, builds and pays the repair bill for these vehicles...if they say the system is operating to their designed specification and not to attempt any repair, then my hands (or the dealer you are dealing with) are tied.
Now if this is the case, then your problem is not with the dealer but with GM.
May I suggest that you call the GM Customer Cares center and talk to someone there.
Understand that automobiles and the automotive industry have changed considerably since 1973. They have changed considerably since 1980 when I started....its like comparing apples to Playstation..you just can't do it.
As far as customer service goes, I feel that customer service is great until you don't get your way...then all hell breaks loose...and the internet proves that.
If you look on these forums you will find a handful of unhappy people telling their stories of how the "evil automaker" won't fix their cars or treated them poorly...well to be honest, I'm only getting half the story and I'm sure that their story has been "adjusted or edited" to make them look like the victim..just like the guy I posted about with the paint job.
The problem in customer service is there are some people that no matter what you do, you will never satisfy..there are others that you can satisfy if they talk to someone else, and there are others that with a little personal attention and education will satisfy themselves.
I am on the other side of this..I hear what the customer tells us or better yet demands from us...and some of these demands are out of this world..an example..
We are open on Saturdays til noon, we had a customer call at 11:45 telling us that he was bringing in his truck for some warranty issues and that we need to have a rental vehicle ready for him when he gets there.
I inform the customer that the rental car company we use is out of cars and none will be available til Monday...."well you can call Jiffy rent or who ever to have my car here when I get there"
I can't do that because we don't have accounts set up to bill the rental car company for the rental..plus the other companies are closed. Plus to top it off we are closing in 15 minutes.
His response "I can't believe you treat people this way"....WTF
I bet a dollar to a doughnut that if I called him 15 minutes before he was to leave work to tell him I would be there he would tell me to get f#cked!
So I had to stay 1 1/2 hours after work to wait for this guy to show up to take his vehicle and supply him with some alternative transportation.....and then all he did was complain about how he was treated.....how about my saturday plans with my family?

[PawnofChaos]

Well, I finally got her into the dealer after a day of total frustration. She decided to act up for them during a systems scan. I was told they found an open circuit on the intake manifold O2 sensor. They replaced it and so far so good. Hope this info may help fellow TB owners. Thanks to all!

[fungo45]

Originally Posted by GMMerlin

If the SES light has come on, then there is a code stored in history along with some limited sensor information.

My 03 TB has the SES light coming on and off intermittently. The timing is always bad where I can't get it into the shop while the light is still one. When they hook it up to the diagnostic equipment, nothing comes up - so it appears that there isn't always something stored in history. The tech told me that the light coming on and off is probably and exhaust or electrical problem. I don't feel anything different with the car when the light is on, so my guess is that it's probably electrical, which realyl scares me.