Social Security is Welfare?

[lamehonda]

No, he is right. It is a transfer payment. Take from people who pay taxes and give to people who don't. In theory, it is no different than welfare. Most of the people who collect social security have paid in, whereas most people who get welfare have never done anything.


P.S. He is not talking about the welfare program. The term welfare is in reference to doing what is right for those who need help. (ex. giving food to a starving person on the street)

[taranaki]

That's an interesting definition. So one is a return on taxes paid [ but not automatically a fair or equal one], and the other is an act of charity on behalf of the nation using more of the taxes collected from working folk??

[lamehonda]

Sounds about right

[fredjacksonsan]

Right; in theory, Social Security was first set up as a retirement plan, for those that didn't have one at work.

Now there are millions to which the government has promised a certain level of income but cannot deliver.

Personally, I received a statement from Uncle Sam last year that I've paid in enough to be entitled to 864 dollars a month.









I don't plan to ever see it.

[lamehonda]

It does suck to have to give your hard earned money to old people, some of whom make a sh*tload of money. Why do they need it more than me?

[fredjacksonsan]

I wouldn't mind paying so much if I was going to get paid back; but with the massive mismanagement of the system, it will likely get bankrupted or changed so that I (and you, and everyone else under 60) won't get what we were promised from the government.

[lamehonda]

Yeah, but why should people who are trying to save for there first house have to pay for their retirement? If people were smart enough to save their money we wouldn't need the system at all.

PS. last statement may seem unrealistic when posted in car forum.

[fredjacksonsan]

Agreed, in this day and age. Back in "the day" when SS was started, there weren't the investment options available that we have today. It was bank interest or stock market, and the crash of '29 was caused by people manipulating the market with large sums of money, so even that wasn't any good.

Roosevelt started SS to give people something guaranteed to retire to, and hope during the depression that they'd be ok. It's outdated now, but there are millions that are currently collecting so the gov't can back out now.

Congress borrowed money from SS in the 60's (I think) and was supposed to pay it back - but without interest, which is why there's trouble today.

Ah well....

I'm out.

[lamehonda]

Using the government to secure our retirements is stupid. If the economy suffers, the government will rapidly become broke as hell.

[Twitch1]

Lamehonda- love your cat! Re: Old people with lots of money. My Mom gets $800 a month pays $350 rent, about $200 after meds co-pay and doctor visits and an average of $40-50 per week on food. By that time there ain't no more. Where do you see how she makes lots of money? She worked past age 72 too.

And you know if YOU were nearing retirement age the relativity would certainly be different in your mind. I'm not griping on you personally but think about what you say 'why do they need it more than me?' If all the people on minimum subsistence social security got nothing at all they'd be either homeless starving, as you mentioned, in the streets or wards of the state in some other way. The people retiring now had to pay social security and save for their 1st house too. Nothing new. Life is tough. Oh well...

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by lamehonda

It does suck to have to give your hard earned money to old people, some of whom make a sh*tload of money. Why do they need it more than me?

I agree with Twitch Social Security isn't enough to live on. Both my parents are retired and they just barely make it together with 2 monthly checks.

I have already paid more into the system then I will ever see. Nothing in Social Security for retired people is free they all paid for it all their lives, and now they are getting some of it back.

[lamehonda]

Originally Posted by Twitch1

Lamehonda- love your cat! Re: Old people with lots of money. My Mom gets $800 a month pays $350 rent, about $200 after meds co-pay and doctor visits and an average of $40-50 per week on food. By that time there ain't no more. Where do you see how she makes lots of money? She worked past age 72 too.

And you know if YOU were nearing retirement age the relativity would certainly be different in your mind.

I am not saying your mother had money. Social Security is not the answer for people like your mother. Families in this country don't care for the elderly anymore. If it was socially acceptable to have an older parent living with you your mother would be pulling in enough money to pay you a little bit for the accomodations and have some money left over. Housing is very expensive these days and probably sucks up a good chunk of social security checks.

As far as your comment about me nearing retirement, I agree with you. However, the only reason we still have that goofed up system is that people in my generation don't seem to want to vote. The older people do. So we are stuck with social security.

PS. I pull in $803 a month right now. Have $300 car payment. $500 for rent. Sounds like I have a financial situation a little similar to your mothers. Luckily, I can get school loans.

[Cbass]

Social security would be an excellent system, had it not been looted already by several governments. For many people, automatic deductions are the best way of going about it, since then they don't have anohter account to manage and worry about, especially when funds are tight. It offers some sense of security as well, in case something should happen to those savings, such as an investment tanking, devaluing the currency(check the US $ against the CDN $ and the EU over the last 5 years.), etc.

Canada has a similar system, called the Canada Pension Plan. You pay into it all your life, when you retire you get a pension cheque. It's a paltry sum, barely enough to pay the bills if you own your own house. Maximum payout currently is $775 a month per person, if you retire at 65. Every month you work past 65, you're entitled to 0.5% more per cheque, retire early and every month you didn't work up until 65 is worth 0.5% off your cheque.

Lamehonda, you claim that most people on welfare are cheats, and simply don't want to work. Do you have any way of backing that up, because I don't believe that. Statistics maybe, or is that just rhetoric that you're repeating?

Naki, my provincial gov't has much the same system for social assistance, after a short grace period, they provide employement opportunities, which are arranged with wage subsidy. We have exactly the same situation with certain employers abusing the system for the subsidy, and it is a temporary solution at best. Most of the time the work is part time, and barely pays any more money than social assistance did.

A program my provincial gov't has adopted is the 2 of 5 system. You are only entitled to social assistance for two out of five years. You can use 24 months in 5 calendar years, and after your 24th month they'll boot you. After the 5 month calendar period is up, you can get back on again. If you can prove you're not capable of working, as many people are not, then they'll put you on disability. My roommate is on disability, as he suffered a head injury and has short term memory damage.

[Twitch1]

lamehonda- Sorry to misunderstand you but it seemed like a blanket statement about older people having money. My Mom is very independent and doesn't want to live with anyone, actually. Certainly there are families who do not want their aged folks living with them.

Social security is a bit alien to all of us that didn't live through the Depression with Roosevelt. After a decade or genuine poor times for a large percentage of the population the SS concept sounded great. But so did pyramid schemes in the 1980s! When lots of folks lost jobs SS would make up for the loss of pension in the private sector as happened in the 1930s. Folks that worked 15 years or whatnot were out on their butts and the companies they worked for were out of business and any pension fund was gone.

Actually the same happens today as the companies that once enthralled us all with benefits now try to find ways to fire vested workers 2-3 years away from retirement pension time. Do your own thing as far as looking down the road goes, but do something and don't wait!


Hang in there though on the education as it will ultimately pay off!

[lamehonda]

I am graduating next month. I can't wait to leave Wyoming.

I think that the problem with any system that the government comes up with is that some people will always abuse it. Those people often determine whether the system fails or not.

And I don't want anyone replying to this and saying:

"so, you think that everyone is abusing the system? ur a retard."

As far as the comment about people on welfare being cheats- I was not saying they were cheats, but rather that you can collect welfare from a system that you have not ever paid into. The difference is that one is primarily based on age and the other is based on need.

I am only assuming that people on average only do what they need to to get by. Its human nature.