What happens when you die?

[DGB454]

Originally Posted by Parmenides3

What makes a good life? Can a life that dissolves and leaves no trace of itself be "good"?

Haven't seen you around these parts in a while.

[dantheman00114]

like someone pointed out before.. you don't remember when you were an egg cell in your mom... so when you die... there just may be that state of non existence... and you wont know anything... but what I have always thought about is if that your dead and you're no longer in your body.. then where are you? because in the grand scheme of things... I dont know if there is such a thing as non-existence... where does your mental state of being go?... maybe your spirit is recycled into a new person... but you wont remember your past life...

[dirtydx]

life is like a maze.. sooo many deadends, only one exit. i think existence could go on for decades after physical death, to continue searching for a truth... but once you find the exit, my guess is a one step higher dimension... or start up a new life somewhere else in this universe.

don't u ever get the feeling like your building up to something huge?

what keeps u going each day?

[Parmenides3]

(DGB454---Thanks for the welcome. I wish I could be more regular at AF, but my work consumes me.)

Consider an ordinary book. It is composed of molecules. If I were to crush those molecules so that all that remains is a pile of atoms, the same matter would be present as before. This pile, however, is not a book. So the reality of a thing does not rest on the material alone but also on how it is organized. The organization can be separated from the matter, thus destroying the thing. Aristotle calls this ordering principle the "form," which is just as real as the matter, and even more real because it is not subject to change. A book either exists or it doesn't.

What is different between books and people is that a person is intelligent and free. A person relates to things as a rational being to non-rational beings. A person exhibits an ability to relate to things with a degree of independence from matter (meaning that a person is not entirely determined by matter, as seen in the exercise of free choice). The question is: would a person (who relates to matter with relative autonomy) who is deprived of their own body lose the autonomy they have exercised up to this point? Would not the source of that autonomy remain, beyond the loss of the body? If so, this would mean that persons live beyond life, but that non-rational things do not.

[dirtydx]

Then, could it not be said, Parmenides3, that life is the creation of a soul? A person learns to relate to things as a rational being to non-rational beings. SO that's why advice is so hard to take eh... DNA defines personality, a chemical balance defines who you are in reality. Reality holds a perfect balance of good and evil. Both are equal and crucial factors. Does an evil person regret their life? Does a good person stick to who they are? Maybe, maybe not... maybe death is the only way to realise a truth. Death is there for a reason.

[Parmenides3]

Good thoughts. "Life is the creation of the soul"--- Aristotle would rephrase this "the soul is the life-principle of the body; that which causes the body to live."

DNA determining everything/we're just chemicals/good and evil are coextensive equals---can't follow you there, friend. It would make a horrible pick-up line to tell one's date: "You are genetically and chemically determined to be mine. And any good intention I have for you is balanced out by a bad intention, eventually."

On death and the realization of the truth: Martin Buber (Jewish philosopher, psychologist) said "Death is our profound bow to God."

Good stuff. Too bad there isn't a pipe-smoking smiley for philosophers.

[Faze2183]

some family friends probly proved this soul leaving the body and etc they own a morg... well there was this guy that died and well he weighted like 190lbs then when he died the weight of him was 172lbs range, well the poop and piss weight like 7ish but where the other weight went theyre not sure

[dantheman00114]

thats a myth.. its been proven

[klone420]

u move on to the 4th dimension,heaven or hell call it whatever u want, it is what it is.

[george536]

OK im going to jump in here:
Have you guys ever noticed how life is unfair? seriously though. Look at rich people how they have everything, look at a bum they dont have nothing, also look at little kids suffering somewhere, look at kids that dont even get to be born because they died in there mothers womb, look at people who were evil who killed innocent lives. Dont you guys think its unfair?
My theory: I think everybody when they die go on to a different life and cant remember your past one, so basicaly if you were a someone who lived a horrible unfair life, your next life will be one that youll be the richest person to balance things out. And its not even about having money either. You could have been rich with a terible relationship with your family, and your next life would be being poor but with a great loving family to balance things out. I know you guys wondered why do i get this ford tempo while that kid up the street gets a viper. Maybe in your next life you would be that kid that gets the viper to balance things out.
Also have you guys ever wondered why people look ugly and others dont? seriously though dont you guys think its unfair you guys cant do nothing about how you look. I know you guys can spot out an imperfection about yourself that others dont have. Is it unfair? Maybe you wont have it in your next life.
Thats my 50 cent go buy a donut.

[lazysmurff]

thats a very...hopefull...way to look at things.

however, to pick up where parmenides3 left off (love the name btw)...

it would seem as though the "organization of matter" you mention being essential to seperate us from a pile of atoms is what causes our consciousness. it is in this organization that certain molecules are capable of relating and interacting with other molecules in a way that creates our consciousness.

im not sure where id go with that....i am but a lowly student

[thrasher]

Originally Posted by Oz

When you die, you are dead. No second chances, no second guesses, no regrets. You then start to decompose. Quite simple really.

The truest words spkoen in this thread.

Consciousness, emotion, feeling, thought, they're constructs determined only by connections betwwen neural pathways, nothing more than electrical and chemical signals in the brain. That's it. There is no soul.

Originally Posted by Parmienides3

A person relates to things as a rational being to non-rational beings. A person exhibits an ability to relate to things with a degree of independence from matter (meaning that a person is not entirely determined by matter, as seen in the exercise of free choice). The question is: would a person (who relates to matter with relative autonomy) who is deprived of their own body lose the autonomy they have exercised up to this point? Would not the source of that autonomy remain, beyond the loss of the body? If so, this would mean that persons live beyond life, but that non-rational things do not.

Then your definition of humanity must be extended to chimpanzees, who are capable of rationalization and indeed autonomous thinking. A person IS determined entirely by matter. Our ability to choose freely is granted by our biology, nothing more. The source of our free choice, our brain, and ultimately our neural pathways, no longer exists when our life functions cease.

[dirtydx]

re. lazysmurff

i don't think i agree with that.. an idea was atoms working together only gives the opportunity for a conciousness... atoms create a reality that we have no choice but to follow.

unless, trillions of different entities are experiencing my life at the same time... or maybe fractions of a second ahead in separate dimensions.

[lazysmurff]

i think you missed what i was trying to get at, though re-reading what i wrote, i see hows thats highly possible. it wasnt exactly the most coherent thing ive ever written.

what i was trying to get at (and will try again, and likely fail) is that we are nothing more than a series of atams put togther in a certain way. because of the certain way we are put together we are human. our individual consciousness is shaped by our interaction in our world.

remove a small bit of atoms, or rearrange them differently and youve got chimps, orangotangs, gorillas, etc.

now, whether this spark of interaction (commonly refered to as a soul) between atoms actually is some god given soul, or simpyl a biological result of atoms being in close proximity to one another, creating neurons that interact creating brain function is up for debate. and depending on what side you take, you'll get your answer as to what happens after death.

however, it doesnt really matter if your soul exists after death or not. i cant recall an instance yet where someone has affected the actions of the living from beyond the grave, other than the thought of them doing so driving them crazy.

and as for the body weighing less after death than before death...that would mean the soul has mass, which would make it material, which means we could find it...found it yet?

[klone420]

I'll believe the soul thing as soon as someone dies on a scale. Are fat peoples' souls heavier than skinny poeples'?...lol