Penzoil or valvoline?

[gmc]

Which brand of oil would you use and why? Sorry, but these are you're only choices.

[curtis73]

valvoline

[public]

Valvoline hands down. My father owned a parts store and we saw a lot of low milage cars have trouble using Penzoil and Quaker State. I have always used Havoline or Valvoline. My 1989 Cavi has 300,000 on the original rings, rod and main bearings, still does not burn oil. It also has good compression. I just put in valve stem seals about 6 months ago. The great thing is I always let my oil go 7000-10,000 highway miles between changes. If I changed every 3000 I would be under there every month. That just ain't happening.

[MagicRat]

It makes no difference at all.
Often, popular brands of oil are "private label" that is, lubrication manufacturers will manufacture products for a wide variety of brand names. The important part is the specifications to which the oil is made.
Since both brands are premium, that is they are recogniseabile, sold at higher price points and backed by lots of advertising, they should be higher quality, compared to a low priced oil without a regognisable name (such as what you might find at a grocery store.)
It's much more important to change the oil regularly, than the premium brand you buy.

[public]

I know ALL Valvoline comes from the plant in Ashland, Kentucky. I took the tour-it was way cool.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by public

I know ALL Valvoline comes from the plant in Ashland, Kentucky. I took the tour-it was way cool.

Who knows, they may private-label stuff for Pennzoil

[curtis73]

All BASE oils come from the same sources. Each individual company adds their own additives. For the most part the additives are universalized... like viscosity additives. If you're making 50w, its widely accepted that "x" amount of sulphur compounds make it that viscosity. Where the major differences come into play are the other compounds, like the Calciums for pH, and Molys for shear. They're all different. The base oil itself will only dissolve a certain number of molecules, so the amount you add is limited before you start abnormally altering the oil in a bad direction. Oil makers play with the ratios for different desired effects.

Quaker State uses more Calcium compounds and if you don't religiously change it at 3000 or so, some owners have found intense carbon build up issues. Other brands have more Moly compounds and the roping that they get from it robs HP but helps cam life. If you are a person who changes their oil religiously, chances are Quaker State will never give you carbon issues. If you drive a Diesel and use one with more shear compounds, you don't rev the engine high enough to notice a loss of HP. If you have an engine that is older and has more blowby, you want that Quaker State in there since the contaminants will have more of a pH buffer.

They are all very subtle differences, but there used ot be a website that listed darn near everything pertaining to this and even gave spectrometer readings of additives in different oil brands.

The API certification is also not any guarantee. Some of the best oils in the world are Amsoil and Royal Purple; neither of which carry API ratings, but like Rat said, many of the no-name brands without API ratings are re-packaged Valvoline or Castrol sold in the grocery store. The problem is that they change suppliers more frequently than Ozzy Ozborne loses brain cells and you never know what you're putting in.

For the most part, you can stick with any brand name, but there are so many misconceptions about oil that I want to tear my hair out. I feel like submitting a thread for a sticky candidate that might de-mystify some of this oil stuff.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by curtis73

Other brands have more Moly compounds and the roping that they get from it robs HP but helps cam life. If you are a person who changes their oil religiously, chances are Quaker State will never give you carbon issues. If you drive a Diesel and use one with more shear compounds, you don't rev the engine high enough to notice a loss of HP.

Good post.
A quick comment on molybdenium (sp). As an anti-wear additive, its great, but it is in very limited quantities in the engine oil with the SAE "S" rating (for gasoline engines). It is used in much greater quantities in "C" rated oils, for diesel engines.
This is due to emissions regulations.
If a gasoline engine is burning oil, the moly will get in the exhaust and eventually coat the platinum/palladium catalyst surfaces in a catalytic converter, rendering it ineffective at controlling pollution.

Therefore, if everything else was equal, for anti-wear properties, a gas engine would do better running an exclusively diesel-rated oil.
However, I have never seen 5W-30 or 10W-30 CD rated oils, so I stick with the S rated oils. But I do use 20W-50 CD diesel-rated oils in my air-cooled motorcycles.

[sracing]

Originally Posted by public

I know ALL Valvoline comes from the plant in Ashland, Kentucky. I took the tour-it was way cool.

Not exactly. They are only a reseller. We have tested their products and they are pretty good, but they don't "make" them.

Same as Amsoil, Penzoil, and most all US brands.

US refiners (crude to product) are Mobile(Exxon), Chevron/Texaco, Marathon, and Sunoco.

Valvoline (actually Ashland Oil) owns 38% of Marathon.

And, ALL oil companies buy from all other oil companies at the base stock level. It is much like the US power grid both in truck, train, and pipeline transfers of the raw product. It is almost impossible for anyone to determine where you got your base refined stock. (Especially with gasolines)

The additive package is the only difference. (and many oil if not most are simply repackaged oils from another company) NAPA for example is simply Valvoline.

Just use good brand names stuff and change/filter as recommended.
AND BTW, in reference to another post here.. If you are running low oil engine temps (eg. 180 deg themos) you have to change more often. The automobile engine happens to be a good cracking/refining unit at 190 deg+, so the engine actually refines many impuirties itself (water, gas) when running at constant temps. When cooler or (lots of short trips it doens't do it as well. On the other side of the equation, if your oil gets much over 240 it also starts to break down it's internal structure and then you also have to change more often. (Synthetics can handle more like 280.)

Jim
SR Racing


Jim
SR Racing

[public]

This could be true. I did not see any oil wells at the refinery. Just lots of tanks, pipes and other cool stuff.

btw what do you race?

[sracing]

Originally Posted by public

btw what do you race?

We build and race about everything. Formula V, Formula 2000, NASA AI,
Grand National. Some drag stuff, etc.

We are located in Lexington KY. Engine Dyno, Chasis Dyno, Flowbench services, shock dyno, chassis setup, etc. Data Acquisition, ECM Dyno tuning.

Jim
I think there is an article about us here in the article section. http://www.automotivearticles.com/ra...pecialty.shtml

Jim
SR