ignition switch (& aftermarket alarm)

[rj1721]

I want to just warn others

It seems that aftermarket alarms can interfer w/ diagnostic engine codes, heres my story.
I purchased my 99 astro used it now has 115k, it's used for work and was a used phone co van, VERY clean, the work racks never used, think it was a superviser or trainer...anyway
I started getting the security light come on, it would come and go, one day it finally wouldn't start...tow to the dealer, I pointed out 2 things RIGHT AWAY , an aftermarket alarm, and worn out ignition keys, they were almost flat. The dealer just hooked up to the computer and reset the security system, I demanded 2 new ignition keys...cut from the vin#...
the "repair" the dealer made lasted 2 weeks, after going back and forth, 2 MORE WEEKS, I finally disconected the aftermarket alarm, something I told them to do the first time, they finially got a diagnostic code for a bad ignition swith...DUH, I pointed out this thing gets started 20 x a day by me, and probably did by the previous owner also.

Like I said, I hope this helps others

Rick

[ponchonutty]

Originally Posted by rj1721

I want to just warn others

It seems that aftermarket alarms can interfer w/ diagnostic engine codes, heres my story.
I purchased my 99 astro used it now has 115k, it's used for work and was a used phone co van, VERY clean, the work racks never used, think it was a superviser or trainer...anyway
I started getting the security light come on, it would come and go, one day it finally wouldn't start...tow to the dealer, I pointed out 2 things RIGHT AWAY , an aftermarket alarm, and worn out ignition keys, they were almost flat. The dealer just hooked up to the computer and reset the security system, I demanded 2 new ignition keys...cut from the vin#...
the "repair" the dealer made lasted 2 weeks, after going back and forth, 2 MORE WEEKS, I finally disconected the aftermarket alarm, something I told them to do the first time, they finially got a diagnostic code for a bad ignition swith...DUH, I pointed out this thing gets started 20 x a day by me, and probably did by the previous owner also.

Like I said, I hope this helps others

Rick

Actually, I am on the other side of the coin. I install alarms and such. I also with dealerships. The thing that can happen is with the Passkey2 system if it has been bypassed like for a remote start. Other than that, there is no way that an alarm can "keep" you from reading codes.

Really, Gm has a serious problem with the PK2 and ignition switches. Unfortunately, they won't fess up to it. Also, the repair they did is only temporary. All GM vehicles with these OEM antitheft systems will fail.

[rj1721]

My van does not have a key w/ a chip in it, if thats the type of system your speaking of....it also does not have a remote start.

I'm not an electronics expert, but the security light came off and on a few times, then then satayed on and the car wouldn't start. I was told the code ( forgot what it was ) but I looked it up someplace and did find it along with the instructions to re-set the anti theft system, something like stand on your head and turn the key 3x's

the security light came on AGAIN abot a week after I got it back, the dealer had my van for almost a week and a half, all the time refusing to disconect the aftermarket alarm. they gave it back to me and once agin, the security light came on and it wouldn't start.
thats when I disconected the aftermarket alrarm.
the dealer then got the van back and told me they got a fault reading for the ignition switch, the y replaced the switch and i haven't had a problem for 9 months now.

Of course my experience here with 2 dealerships has been extreamly dissapointing, and I would NEVER use either of them again, ( I do buy my parts from that dealership)

Now while I understand service writer need to "weed out" customer that tell them what to do from what is actually needed to do a repair, to totally ignor someone that does have a background that can apply knowledge ( I was a machine builder, plc's, closed loop sensor's...after the plant closed a freind took me in his looksmith shop, new car lock out, late model re-key, so while I'm not an EXPERT I do understand)

So like I said, what really bugged me was the 2 things I pointed out AND TOLD THEM TO DO...is what actually got done to get this thing going again.

Now it's just common sense, if a key is BADLY worn out, and turns the lock, then the pins, or disks, are also worn out. from what I see could find, is that there is a sensor on the top of this switch that tells if the pins are in place, since this switch is not a contact switch, but a prox sensor of some sort, as the bottom of the discs get slowly worn, at some point the sensor will not read the disks, because they are not comming close enough.

As far as the alarm not allowing a reading, I guess I could be wrong, the dealership could have lied to me, and just don't know a key from a key hole.I am just pointing out the events that happend in order
What bothered me also was the fact that because they couldn't get a code, they didn't have the ability to trouble shoot, or eliminate the thing that to me was right out there in the open, A WORN OUT KEY/SWITCH. Looking back I panacked because, this truck IS HOW I EARN A LIVING, I should have just called one of the locksmiths I know and had them re-key the switch.

BUT now, IF this problem happens again, whats the fix? I just threw out my first key and am using another new key, I keep an UNUSED master just to get dups made. I can't be with out this van, yes I do have a back up, but it limits me,

Other than this, it is a VERY dependable truck, just the regular maint of a van w/ over 100k

Originally Posted by ponchonutty

Actually, I am on the other side of the coin. I install alarms and such. I also with dealerships. The thing that can happen is with the Passkey2 system if it has been bypassed like for a remote start. Other than that, there is no way that an alarm can "keep" you from reading codes.

Really, Gm has a serious problem with the PK2 and ignition switches. Unfortunately, they won't fess up to it. Also, the repair they did is only temporary. All GM vehicles with these OEM antitheft systems will fail.

[ponchonutty]

Yeah, the '99 astros do not have the VATS-pellet style keys. Actually, the keys are nothing special. The system is located next to the ignition cyl. and you can use any cut key to start it. It is a real pain to work on. Most GM shops have no idea what to do with it including GM. All they do is replace the whole system and cross fingers.

You are right, they should have been able to read the codes that told them the PKII system had been tripped. It will store those codes for a while even if the car can start.

[rj1721]

So I guess I should ask, since there seems to be more knowledgable people here then the dealer....
Was my deduction of how the swich/sensor works correct? ( the service writer claimed I was right, but like I said, I have no faith in them)
I know there is a srevice bullitin to just "reset" the security system...read my other post..
I am not doubting that the aftermarket alarm SHOULDN'T interfear with code readings, but like I said there was a difference in the reading AFTER I disconnected the alarm...(at least that what the dealer claimed)
Also When the dealer had my van a 2nd time I drove by the see what was happening, and found all the flow charts and tech notes, my van parked on the back of the lot DOORS UNLOCKED...another story.
[QUOTE
You are right, they should have been able to read the codes that told them the PKII system had been tripped. It will store those codes for a while even if the car can start.[/quote]

[ponchonutty]

Originally Posted by rj1721

So I guess I should ask, since there seems to be more knowledgable people here then the dealer....
Was my deduction of how the swich/sensor works correct? ( the service writer claimed I was right, but like I said, I have no faith in them)
I know there is a srevice bullitin to just "reset" the security system...read my other post..
I am not doubting that the aftermarket alarm SHOULDN'T interfear with code readings, but like I said there was a difference in the reading AFTER I disconnected the alarm...(at least that what the dealer claimed)
Also When the dealer had my van a 2nd time I drove by the see what was happening, and found all the flow charts and tech notes, my van parked on the back of the lot DOORS UNLOCKED...another story.
[QUOTE
You are right, they should have been able to read the codes that told them the PKII system had been tripped. It will store those codes for a while even if the car can start.

[/quote]
Yeah I think so but you know, I never pulled one apart to really see how they work. I do not know if it's some sort of mechanical switch like the key sence trigger or what that makes this system work. I've seen some pretty low mileage GM vehicles have this problem even when the keys look brand new. Then there are cars with the PKIII system like the new G-prix, Bonn, and big cars like Buicks and Caddys(not the Escalades) that show the same problems but are different. The PKIII relys on special keys with the "chip" in the black head of the key while PKI and PKII do not require special keys.