d16z6

[Rice-Rocketeer]

Originally posted by grncivicdhr
dude, that BMW F1 engine was from the 80s, i'm sure if you compared the two, that F1 engine and the d16, those technitions back then would have been pretty impressed with the d16.

BMW has had various power cheats like the VANOS system for a while now. The only thing the D16 has is a different version of it. Sorry but D or B series honda engines are not modern miracles. And an economy engine will not by any means "kick the ass" of a smaller displacement engine designed to be a powerhouse.

Originally posted by grncivicdhr
but i was tryin to make a simple point that the d16 is an able, and capable engine to make the kind of power most people on this forum are looking for. i only want maybe 250 hp out of mine using forced induction, a turbo most likely, so i know i don't need an h22 or B-series engine. as fas as the naturaly aspirated d16 makin 400hp, i'd have to see real proof of that too. i'm sorry to say that if any of use were serious about real hp we'd have V8s under our hoods, good thing i picked up that 68 mustang last month.

You didn't state this tho. You were more or less going with the crowd mentality of D16's can be easily molded into V8 eating monsters. Of course you can strap on a turbo and do a few more things and get a decent HP rating. It can be done with most engines. As for stangs, your right. Which is why I get upset seeing ppl thinking civic engines are the end all and be all.

As for glorifying myself, hardly. I know it may seem that way to those who don't know me, but the only reason I'm still here is to knock some sense into ppl who that, because BMW has a bad-ass 1.3 liter, think they can get an intake and exhuast and start kicking some ass.

[hobbesboarder]

comparing honda to BMW is like comparing meatloaf to steak. Im still a proud owner of a D16 but if someone offered me a trade for a M3 i would do it in a millisecond.

[ric]

what i wanna know is how would the creators of the amazing 1.3 liter bmw f1 engine be so impressed with a honda d16 anything? first off variable valve timing has been around longer then honda has made cars. so that isnt an impression factor at all. and if your gonna get dumb on me and ask why bmw didnt use it on thier f1 engines then let me explain. our so called radical cam is to extend power beyond the range of a single lobe that would run out of breath earlier on. in a race car, any of them, thier single lobe is way bigger then our radical lobe because they dont need low end. also i dont know if you follow any sort of racing or not but do you have any clue how often those engines need to be rebuilt? not exactly reliable if you ask me.

other then that your d16 is about the same as every other piston based engine out there. i mean seriously whats so different? it has a cam, rocker arms, valves, valve springs, retainers, valve guides, cam seals, cam journals, cylinder walls, cooling passages, oiling passages, pistons, rod,a crank etc you get the point.

this engine is by no means any great thing. it can handle its own but serious power production is and always will be dfined by this statement

there is no replacement for displacement

please dont even say turbo because i could show you turbo v8's and turbo v10's or turbo anything. anything you do with a d series engine i can do to another engine and make more power period.

its all about what you want. if you wanna make 200hp to the wheels in your civic then keep the d16 do a little beefing up throw a turbo on and be done with it. but if you wanna make bigger power im sorry people doing it with a d16 is going to become more and more risky and way more costly every step you take then if you started with a bigger displacement engine. i suggest you do a little more reading up on d16's before you think you can turn one into a 400hp naturally aspirated monster thats functional.

[RickDaTuner]

Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer


You know what the key to power is in a naturally aspirated enviorment? Displacement. The D16 isn't exactly overflowing with extra room there.

No, nothing is impossible but I can tell you one thing, unless you can make pistons by hand, it is HIGHLY improbable that you can get 400 hp NA out of most ANY honda engine, let alone a D16. Do you know what you'd need to do? First off you'd need to get the entire thing resleeved. MAKE a custom billet crankshaft from scratch and then make customs rods and pistons out of something with the tinsel strength of titanium reinforced carbon kevlar. Now with the rotating assembly in the right ratio, you need to reinforce EVERY part connected to it. This includes making a new transmission and reinforcing ALL drivetrain components.

Naturally Aspirated? Well, the key to NA is headwork, how much can you flow and how well? You'd need to fully race port the head, get better valve springs and valves and get such a radical camshaft that you couldn't keep the engine on while idling.

I don't feel like going over every step you should take but among the other high dollar things you'd need, would be a fully programmable engine management system tuned and programmed by a team of honda engineers with hundreds of hours of dyno tuning.

Maybe you've heard of L'Natural? They have an NA CRX running 10's. Impressive no? They took a CRX HF and stuffed the largest displacement engine they could stuff in there, an H22A. They then resleeved it giving it 2.5 liters of displacement and raised the compression ratio to 16:1. Almost TWICE that of a D16. You know how much power it made? 250hp on $6 a gallon high octane race fuel.

Similarly engineered 8 and 9 second civics are running GSR engine, turbocharged to brink of extinction and make high 500's.

And after knowing all this, you still want to tell me that for $1500 you can get 400hp out of a NA D16???

in not gonna challenge your intellegence what im saying came out of a honda tuning mag man read up Gude(bulfrog racing) did a nice job on that engine all the guy did was ask them for the parts and he installed them himself he told them what he wan ted and the built it to spec dont be foolish and say it cant be done your only hindering your own advancement it he sport ima get that magazine and show you the article how are you! gonna sit ther and tell me they only made 250Hp out of A NA prelude engine thats pretty sad i tuning if you ask me mna i think you needto go over the facts man

[ric]

oh and dont forget most if not all of the guys running NA hondas in those drags like el'natural have thier rockers bridged so the car only runs on the high cam. totally not streetable

[praxis]

:argue:
DIVERSITY...
that is what it all boils down to. What would this world be, if everyone was the same color and thought the same way?

The whole reason that racing has classes is to give an equal opportunity to all racers. This car is this fast, with this much hp, and that many/type of modifications. You wouldn't want to watch a funny car race a yugo, would you?

SOHC's are a bit under rated.

BisiEzerioha's 89 CRX HF was featured in SuperStreet in Sept. 00. He was running 12's at this time (I wish that I had a hp rating for you). Here is a list of what he had under the hood.

• 88 D15B6 block (blue printed)
• 12.7:1 compression JE pistons (custom domed with no peak)
• XC series piston rings
• shot peened and resized D15B6 Honda connecting rods
• DX head with welded combustion chambers
• 5-angle valve job
• raised intake ports
• port job by RSmotorworks and BisimotoEngineering
• Bisimoto camshaft, valve springs, and crankcase evacuation system
• RSmotorworks racing valves
• TWM D series intake manifold
• Mikuni PHH 44mm individual throttle bodies
• Holley fuel pump and regulator
• DCsports 4-2-1 street header
• custom exhaust
• MSD 6AK ignition box
• NGK spark plugs
• Accel spark plug wires
• D16 tranny with custom Bisimoto gearing
• Action 6-puck clutch

Granted this guy is an engineer and owns Bisimoto. He was also in good cahoots with some other places and got some very good deals...like free stuff. It is impressive.

I have nothing against B series engines. Actually, when my wife gets a new car I am taking her 98 civic DX hatch and putting a B18 in it. I will still keep the D16 in the 93 4door. I like that it is the stock motor for that generation...and it is not all that slow. It works for my class.

Can't we all just get along?

[Rice-Rocketeer]

Originally posted by RickDaTuner
dont be foolish and say it cant be done your only hindering your own advancement it he sport ima get that magazine and show you the article how are you! gonna sit ther and tell me they only made 250Hp out of A NA prelude engine thats pretty sad i tuning if you ask me mna i think you needto go over the facts man

Ok how about this, When you stop reading magazines and start learning about actual engine dynamics, then you can tell me something like that.