Time to do the brakes!

[Mr. Cynical]

Good evening, citizens!

I finally got time to take my ride in and have the brakes checked today. Turns out (as the shop said, anyway), that I'm needing work on the rear. The shop gave me a quote of almost $500 bucks.

Now, I'm no mechanic, but I can turn a wrench or two. I used to work on some serious electro-optical systems back in the service, with time spent on hydraulics, servos, and..well, just about anything you can think of.

What I'm slowly getting around to is that I think I want to try and do this myself. I know that if I don't have all the right tools, I can certainly rent them right up the street from home as needed. Plus, I'm taking two weeks off starting on the 18th, and am going to have to have SOMETHING to do with my time.

So, here's where I am: Looking for recommendations. Do any of you recommend anything in particular when I make the big effort? Any particular suppliers/brands? Anything I should (or shouldn't!) do along the way?

Your help, as always, is greatly appreciated.

Your Pal,

Mr. Cynical
Tightwad with a PURPOSE!

[GTP Dad]

First of all are you doing front or rear brakes and on what year and model of Grand Prix? This is important because drum brakes are different than disc brakes to change. Also do you need to change rotors and calipers. If the rear brakes have more than 75K miles I would suggest new calipers especially if the pads have never been changed on before. (Disc brakes only) As far as brake pads for disc brakes I like Performance Friction Carbon Metallic pads although the Ceramic pads are exceptional especially for high performance driving. As far as rotors are concerned the most auto parts stores can supply you with good quality rotors. If you are looking for performance brakes then slotted rotors are a good bet although they cost more.
If you are are changing rotors on most Grand Prix you will need to have an impact wrench either electrical or pneumatic to remove the caliper mounting brackets. A large breaker bar will also work but sometimes space prevents using it. The mounting bolts on these brackets are lock tighted in place and are quite hard to get loose although not impossible. Make sure you torque them correctly once done. About 150 foot pounds (check your repair manual).
The calipers themselves can be removed with a ratchet and can be removed quite easily. Once you remove the caliper, remove the pads, you will need to compress the piston back into the caliper, you can do this with a c-clamp without opening the bleeder screw. If you are going to bleed the brakes you can release the bleeder screw and push the piston back more easily. Once you have done this then replace the pads. Make sure the pads have shims with them. This will stop squeeling. If not purchase a package of Brake quiet and smear on the back of the pads. Let dry and reinstall. This procedure will work on all four brakes if they are discs. (If you have drum brakes in the rear post again and I will help you with that too.)
If you are replacing the calipers then remove the hoses from the back at the banjo fitting. Remove the old caliper and install the new one. Don't forget the copper washer. Once you do this reinstall everything else and bleed the brakes.
Hope this helps!

[rubberman]

if your working on a 97-2003 GP then the rear brakes are easy. I replaced the rear rotors and pads for like $80. It took more time to go get the parts then actually put the parts on. good luck.

[Mr. Cynical]

Good morning, GTP Dad!

I've got a 99 GTP, discs all the way around. I'm at about 64k miles. The shop was recommending that I change the rear rotors, and just by looking, I think I agree. There's a groove that I just don't dig in one of them. Which brings me to my list of replacement parts thus far:

These Rotors, and These Pads *honestly, because the description says shims and everything else are included, and I didn't notice that in other ones

I haven't seen calipers for sale anywhere yet. Any ideas on how much that'll add to the bill?

I also really have to admit, about the only reason I'm going with the slotted rotors is that I drive a lot around town during the workday. I was almost in an accident the other morning. Had to slam on the brakes and kinda dive around a guy who just popped out into traffic from between some SUVs. I like being able to STOP when I have to, or at least to be able to avoid impending death (My wife looks like a shorter, more buxom Sandra Bullock. I *love* going home at night.) If they won't really make much of a difference, I'll go to standard rotors and save a bill or two!

I think that the impact wrench might just be something that I rent for the weekend. That couldn't do anything but help! Plus, I've never used one, and always wanted to!

[BIG-L]

You can get the Raybestos Quiet Stop pads from www.rockauto.com for 48.89 VS PFYC @ 71.99 and save some bucks

~Larry~

[Mr. Cynical]

BIG-L, you are, unquestionably, the linkmaster!!! Thank you!

[GTP Dad]

The standard calipers are good enough for street performance. They are readily available at Autozone and Advance. My GTP needed rotors and calipers. We put drilled and slotted rotors. My son wanted them. We also put a remanufactured set of calipers on the rear. Front ones were just fine. The link the Big L gave you will steer you in the proper direction for the pads. The rotors you pointed out are as good as any out there for stock braking systems. Most of the premium pads come with the shims but like I said if they don't the quiet stop only costs about $3 and is easy to find. It is not necessary to change the rear calipers especially with only 64K on the car. The old ones should work just fine. Follow the directions I gave you earlier and you shouldn't have any problems at all. When you rent that impact wrench make sure you get the impact sockets too.
PS. I enjoy coming home to my wife too. She's no Sandra Bullock but she does have 44DD's.

[Mr. Cynical]

Honestly, I don't even know what the shims are for! I feel like an absolute tool saying that!

And really, ain't love grand?

[GTP Dad]

The shims are designed to take vibration out of the pad so that it does not vibrate when you hit the brakes. Without the shims or the Brake Quiet you will get that annoying disc brake squeal everytime you hit the brakes. Most of the higher end pads come with the shims either in the package or attached to the back of the pads.

[theblurr87]

Originally Posted by GTP Dad

The shims are designed to take vibration out of the pad so that it does not vibrate when you hit the brakes. Without the shims or the Brake Quiet you will get that annoying disc brake squeal everytime you hit the brakes. Most of the higher end pads come with the shims either in the package or attached to the back of the pads.

so does that mean that since my breaks are squeaking that all i need are new shims? or pads? (shims are little wedge/filler things right? like the wood kind??) i had my dad take my car in today, i hope they dont charge me up the ass for it. wanted to have other things looked at too though

dont worry cynical i feel like an absolute tool as well

hey L, are they real 44DDs?

[theblurr87]

make that GTP DAD, not L

[GTP Dad]

Absolutely they are real!!! The shims are usually a black or metal pad that are attached to the back of the pads to prevent vibration. They do wear out occasionally and cause the pads to squeal. I just changed the pads on my Ford Escort and the shims were in pretty bad shape. As for the brakes, there are many causes that can lead to squealing. Worn pads, shims missing or the wear indicator could be causing the noise if the pads are bad enough. Sometimes when the pads get overheated they can cause hard spots and that can cause them to squeal too. You didn't say how many miles were on the current pads but if you have more than 50K the front pads are probably in need of replacement anyway.

[richtazz]

slotted/cross drilled rotors look all bling, but don't do much in everyday driving. I don't believe they are worth the extra money unless you drive like a fool or race. Ceramic pads are nice because of their low dust and noiseless performance, but you trade some longevity for those qualities.

[Mr. Cynical]

Originally Posted by GTP Dad

Absolutely they are real!!!

The shims?
I'm envious, really. My wife's only sporting 38D. She keeps saying she wants a reduction. I keep saying I'd have her committed before I'd let it happen.

But, back to cars!

I think, after everything I've read here, I'm just going to do a decent set of rotors from Raybestos that I found on the Rockauto link from BIG-L. I've got a friend that says he knows how to do this stuff, but I also figure he's sort of crazy. This will be a fun time though. When I make a batch of Homebrew, I like to take pictures of each step and post a walk-through about how I did everthing. I might just do that with this installation! It'd make for at least an interesting thread, as everyone would get to taunt me along the way as I'm screwing things up!

The good side: When someone replies, it comes to my blackberry, so I can almost immediately know if I'm about to do something (or already did something) really dumb!

[GTP Dad]

Big-L wouldn't steer you wrong. If you have doubts about doing this job, get yourself a manual which will show you how to do everything.
Richtazz, I agree that the drilled and slotted are overkill but the son paid for them and they do stop great. The car has been to the drags a few times but thats about all the racing that gets done with this car. My son has also been known to do some foolish things in the GTP too. He also has a habit of needing to stop quickly due to being a little overzealous with his right foot!