2005 GTO vs 2004 Corvette/2004 Cobra

[Polygon]

I already gave you one, the Cobra.

[Sean_S]

Originally Posted by Polygon

You just don't get it, and I am tired of explaining myself, but I'll do it one last time.

Leaf springs have no place on a modern sports car. I don't care if it is still a capable car. The fact of the matter is that they skimped on the performance side of things. You would have much better performance if they were using a proper suspension in the back. For a $44,000 car I would expect a hell of a lot more than leaf springs. Like is said before, that is NOT value, that is a rip off.

You can have great performance, average interior, and a great price. Hell, the Mustang has a better interior than the Corvette and the Cobra is nearly $10,000 less. The Cobra is a very strong straight-line runner and it will give the Corvette a very good run for its money on the track. The Cobra is what I would call a value. You're getting more for your money in my opinion.

On your third point, you're once again, comparing the Corvette to cars that aren't in its class. The Evo doesn't have that bad of an interior for a sub $30,000 car. The Evo not only has a better quality interior than the Corvette it also out performs it. I do have one complaint with the Evo; the gauge cluster doesn't suite me much. You also compare the Corvette to the Elise, which is a limited production supercar while the Corvette is a mass-produced sports car. I would also live to see the C6 keep up with the Elise on the track, not a chance in hell. When you're dealing with supercars weight savings is a big issue so it is very common to see the bare carbon fiber that the body is made of. Supercars are not meant to be user friendly if they were the Acura NSX would have been a success.

I am not saying that the Corvette is not a capable car. I am saying that it is not as good of a value as most people make it out to be. You keep comparing it to cars that aren’t in its class.

So wait, for one you're saying that the Corvette should have an excellent interior with excellent performance and still be priced at 45k? Are you serious? Because I can't see how anyone could say that with a straight face.

The Cobra would not even come close to what the C6 can do on a track, that is just insane to say that, and I'm a Mustang owner.

I didn't say the Evolution VIII, (And since when has the Evolution VIII been a sub 30k car?) I said the Evolution MR FQ-320 which is in the same price bracket(Possibly more as I don't know how much one would run State side. I ahve heard the FQ-300 is around 40k in the UK) as the C6 and only beat the C6 by .8 of a second on the Top Gear track. Read that again THE MR FQ-320 not the STOCK MR. The MR that is being sold in the US would not stand a chance in a track race and it has been proven.

Let's just take the important times here:

1 min 26.0 secs - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR FQ-320
1 min 26.8 secs - Chevrolet Corvette C6
1 min 26.9 secs - Lotus Exige S2 (Wet)
1 min 28.2 secs - Lotus Elise Sport 190
1 min 28.9 secs - Mitsubishi EVO VIII FQ-300
1 min 29.4 secs - Subaru Impreza WRX STi WR1
1 min 30.1 secs - Subaru Impreza Sti Type UK PPP
1 min 30.9 secs - Audi S4
1 min 31.8 secs - Mazda RX-8
1 min 31.8 secs - Nissan 350Z

Doesn't look like the Elise (Read Sport 190 which is better then the one here in the states and is for all purposes a track car.) beat it either. The Exige S2 probably would, but if it were sold in the US it would probably go for at least 50k+ which is now Z06 territory.

I'm comparing the C6 to these cars because that's what other people compare it to. If a Corvette doesn't perform on the levels of cars like the Elise, the Evolution, the STI, the M3, ect then people say it's junk. Of course, it seems to me when the Corvette beats them, all of a sudden they aren't in that class anymore.

Sounds like you just have an extreme hate for the Corvette. Sadly, so do I but I the numbers don't lie. Personally I would take an Elise over a Corvette anyday.

[jncodave]

Originally Posted by Polygon

You can have a descent interior and performance for a descent price. It can be done. The Corvette’s interior is overly cheap and disproportionate to its price. I still can't get over that fact that your spending $45,000 on a car that still uses leaf springs. That is just a rip off. There is no excuse for using leaf springs in a sports car, I'm sorry.

What you dont realize is that corvette owners care about performance. That is what they are buying the car for. They could care less what the interior is made out of.

[Sean_S]

Originally Posted by Polygon

I already gave you one, the Cobra.

Ok that seals it. You honestly think a SVT Cobra is comparable perfomance wise to the C6.

[Polygon]

1. I never said that the Corvette should have an excellent fit and finish for that price. Why don't you read that post again? I said for that price it should at least have an average fit and finish on the inside. You can find better interiors in sub $20,000 cars.

2. I don't know what the FQ-320 prices are here in America, but the regular Evo can be bought for sub $30,000 prices. I've seen them sell for $26,000. Mitsubishi isn't doing so well these days, especially here in the states.

3. The Exige's time was in the wet, so if it were a dry track the Exige would take the Vette by at least two or three seconds most likely. Also, you can attribute the Corvettes fast lap time more to the fact that it has a lot of grunt than the fact that it actually handles well. Take it on an auto-x course and see what happens. In auto-x the power advantage is nearly non-existent.

4. The Corvette isn't in those cars classes not because it can't perform as well. Performance does not determine class, which is one of many factors. Factors like trim level, body style, performance, price, and what group of people you're marketing the damn car to determines class. It isn't that hard to understand. For instance, the Dodge Daytona Turbo Z Turbo II and the Chrysler LeBaron GTC Turbo II are mechanically the same car. They have the same frame and even most of the same interior bits. However, the Daytona is a sports car and the LeBaron is a luxury car. The LeBaron sold for more and it was market to a different group of people. Even though they were pretty much the same car they weren't in the same class. See how that works?

5. I don't have an extreme hate for the Corvette. Hell, I would much rather own a Vette than a Mustang. What I hate is people over estimating a car and making excuses for shoddy engineering and a cheap interior when, for the price, there is no excuse for either. My complaint is that the Corvette is slightly overpriced and overrated.

6. I didn't say that the Cobra is comparable to the Corvette performance wise. I said that it would give it a run for its money. My point was that the Cobra has a much better interior and costs ten thousand less. You guys like to use this bullshit so I'll throw it in once, with that ten grand you saved on the Cobra you could be whooping the Vette all day long. I just think that the Cobra is actually priced more fairly than the Corvette, that was more my point.

[Sean_S]

Originally Posted by FordJunky

the corvette is one of the best bargains u will find anywhere and if anyone disagrees feel free to point out a car that has comparable price and performance and better interior cause i can point out a hell of a lot that dont come close.

Originally Posted by Polygon

I already gave you one, the Cobra.

Please tell me how you didn't just say the Cobra is comparable in price and performance.

Beyond that, I said this:

Originally Posted by Sean S

Doesn't look like the Elise (Read Sport 190 which is better then the one here in the states and is for all purposes a track car.) beat it either. The Exige S2 probably would, but if it were sold in the US it would probably go for at least 50k+ which is now Z06 territory.

Where in that did I say the Exige wouldn't take the Corvette? I said it probably would (Implying that rain screwed it up) and I added that the Elise 190 is a track car (Didn't beat the C6's time) and the Exige S2 (Which is also a limited run track car if I remember correctly) would be well over the money that one would spend on a C6. This was in counter to you saying that the street legal Elise would beat a Corvette. The times don't lie.

Originally Posted by Polygon

I don't know what the FQ-320 prices are here in America, but the regular Evo can be bought for sub $30,000 prices.

Originally Posted by Sean S

I said the Evolution MR FQ-320 which is in the same price bracket(Possibly more as I don't know how much one would run State side. I ahve heard the FQ-300 is around 40k in the UK)

I said I didn't know what the FQs run here also, but I gave the price I've seen them for in the UK and it is comparable to the C6. READ THIS: A 28k Evolution VIII or a 35k Evolution MR has NO CHANCE against a C6, and I woudln't have bothered comparing them except you keep saying that the C6 can't out perform them which I have proven to be a false statement.

On top of that, the Top Gear course was built by Lotus to force cars into really bad situations to test the limits of cornering. There is one decent straight away. If you are saying that the Evolutions (MR FQ-300, not the 320) lost because handling wasn't an issue, then that is incorrect also.

I will admit though that it is definitely possible the MR does handle better if speed were not a factor in racing

It's just that the C6 is a better overall performer. So I may have come off wrong on that.


I will also admit that they are not technically in the same class as the Corvette. I came off a bit wrong on this statement.

Originally Posted by Sean S

I'm comparing the C6 to these cars because that's what other people compare it to. If a Corvette doesn't perform on the levels of cars like the Elise, the Evolution, the STI, the M3, ect then people say it's junk. Of course, it seems to me when the Corvette beats them, all of a sudden they aren't in that class anymore.

What I was getting at is people will compare cars inside or outside classes. You are right though when it comes to the technical side of classifying cars. The Elise, Evolution, and Corvette are wholey different cars.

[FordJunky]

as for the cobra, i am a ford boy (duh) and love the cobra and the cobra is in my opinion a better value than the vette, but im comparing to cars in the vettes calss of performance (even though the cobra is as powerful theres only so much that could be done for it being so heavy and out dated) and the only cars in the vettes class of performance cost like upwards of 100k and well beyond that.