If the election was held today, who would you vote for?

[RSX-S777]

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

and lets not forget the one thing you have to believe to be a Kerry supporter:

that your canidate with a questionable leadership background, who voted for the patriot act and the war on Iraq, who is living off a forune he didnt make either, and is as much a liar and cheat as any other professional politician is actually going to do a better job than the man he mirrors so well.

1) Questionable record? In reality, outside of the partisan spin-zone, no. The Republicans, if you remember, were even able to put a negative spin on McCain's war record. Practice makes perfect.

2) His fortune is irrelevant. Marrying rich- we should all be so lucky. Where did Bushie's fortune come from?

3) Votes based on doctored and exaggerated intelligence (Bush administration LIES).

4) OK, so all politicians are scum. Vote for the the scum that is the lesser of two evils.

5) A mental patient in a clown costume could ignore treaties, butcher the English language, send others to fight wars based on bullshit intelligence, balk at the international community, talk to imaginary beings (and base his actions on what they tell him aka Jesus), squander massive amounts of surplus money, allow the environment to suffer etc., etc...

6) So, in conclusion- I don't know if Kerry can do any better, for sure. I DO know that it will be damn hard to do much worse, and quite simple to reverse many of Bush's blunders. So I'm willing to give him a shot.

[lazysmurff]

Originally Posted by RSX-S777

1) Questionable record? In reality, outside of the partisan spin-zone, no. The Republicans, if you remember, were even able to put a negative spin on McCain's war record. Practice makes perfect.

actually it is. there are several people outside of the politcal spin zone that question john kerry's military service record. not that he is the only person alive. hell, im sure if we looked seriously into everyone thats ever served, we'd find questinable stuff.

Originally Posted by RSX-S777

2) His fortune is irrelevant. Marrying rich- we should all be so lucky. Where did Bushie's fortune come from?

and so are bush's business blunders. democrats chide bush for riding daddy's fortune, yet balk when kerry's is called into question.

Originally Posted by RSX-S777

3) Votes based on doctored and exaggerated intelligence (Bush administration LIES).

if he's so easily tricked by such ridiculous "intellegence", im not sure i want him in power. fact of the matter is, he thought it would keep him in good political standing.

Originally Posted by RSX-S777

4) OK, so all politicians are scum. Vote for the the scum that is the lesser of two evils.

yay, we're getting somewhere. so stop defending yours and chiding theirs, it makes no difference.

Originally Posted by RSX-S777

5) A mental patient in a clown costume could ignore treaties, butcher the English language, send others to fight wars based on bullshit intelligence, balk at the international community, talk to imaginary beings (and base his actions on what they tell him aka Jesus), squander massive amounts of surplus money, allow the environment to suffer etc., etc...

and so could a drunk monkey, whats your point? the surplus was on its way out anyway, there were people in place to check his power on that bullshit intellegence (the president doesnt hold supreme power buddy), every president has ignored the environment, and at one point pissed on a foriegn country. Kerry will be no different, i promise you.

Originally Posted by RSX-S777

6) So, in conclusion- I don't know if Kerry can do any better, for sure. I DO know that it will be damn hard to do much worse, and quite simple to reverse many of Bush's blunders. So I'm willing to give him a shot.

yes, it is hard to do worse, but i think the democratic party has nailed it.

[Flatrater]

I have to agree with Laztsmu4rf all the way on his post!

[RSX-S777]

OK. Counterpoint:

1) Those who question Kerry's record outside of the zone are questionable, themselves- as are their agendas and connections. One of the most vocal was filmed saying the exact opposite of what he claims now 10 years ago.

2) Bush's repeated business failings reflect a fundamental lack of fiscal sense and and managerial ability- two qualities vitally important to a man who would hold the highest office. Kerry's wife's money has no bearing whatsoever on his earned position and past accomplishment.

3) We ALL believed in Bush because we had no intelligence to the contrary pre-war. Did you?
NOW we know the truth about what was known and not known- along with Senators. Consequently, who was expecting to be deliberately mislead by the President after the 911 attacks.

4) Meh. Still, lesser of two evils....

5) Budget surplusses are created by good budgeting and disappear when planning is poor. It wasn't "on the way out". It was there. Now it's gone and spending is out of control. It must be the Democrats' fault...

Clinton absolutely did not ignore the environment. Many of his policies were promptly nixed by Bush.

Presidents may have pissed off countries in the past, but none so rashly and blatantly as Bush.

Kerry HAS TO be different, if for no other reason than people damn well demand a change after what Bush has done.

[lazysmurff]

I have to agree with Laztsmu4rf all the way on his post!

mark your calenders, thats a first. (ill even forgive the horrible misspelling of my name )

1) Those who question Kerry's record outside of the zone are questionable, themselves- as are their agendas and connections. One of the most vocal was filmed saying the exact opposite of what he claims now 10 years ago.

so who do we trust? noone. why? because this issue doesnt matter except to the people who are running the campaign, and people who fail to see that what someone did 35 years ago is very different from how they will act today. fact: both mens service records are questionable. fact: it really doesnt matter

2) Bush's repeated business failings reflect a fundamental lack of fiscal sense and and managerial ability- two qualities vitally important to a man who would hold the highest office. Kerry's wife's money has no bearing whatsoever on his earned position and past accomplishment.

actually, the president doesnt have to do alot of fiscal policy. alan greenspan on the other hand does. any president worth his salt will just listen to greespan and shut the hell up. and not all of bush's business efforts were failings. as yogs has pointed out, the texas rangers did quite well under him. and if we are going to bring up the ability to run a business, what exactly is Kerry's track record? he doesnt have one...right.

3) We ALL believed in Bush because we had no intelligence to the contrary pre-war. Did you?
NOW we know the truth about what was known and not known- along with Senators. Consequently, who was expecting to be deliberately mislead by the President after the 911 attacks.

careful there cowboy. i didnt buy any of it for a bit. i was one of the 15 million world wide that marched against the war, and one of the very few that wrote my representatives when i heard about the patriot act. the first thing i looked for after 9-11 was for the government to turn into an excuse to invade oil rich countries. while you may be ignorant, do not assume the rest of us are.

4) Meh. Still, lesser of two evils....

because the american people deserve to settle between the lesser of two evils, and not actually have presidential canidates that are worth a damn? hmmm, im not buying that for a bit. badnarik for president!

5) Budget surplusses are created by good budgeting and disappear when planning is poor. It wasn't "on the way out". It was there. Now it's gone and spending is out of control. It must be the Democrats' fault...

hmmm, my econ professor would disagree with you. and your right, it is the democrats fault, as well as the republicans fault. government spending get more and more out of hand with every administration. its ludacris. the goverment spends 1 mill every five seconds. ridiculous to say the least. its the nature of the beast, not of political parties.

Clinton absolutely did not ignore the environment. Many of his policies were promptly nixed by Bush.

he did only what he had to do to stay cool with the EPA and sierra club

Presidents may have pissed off countries in the past, but none so rashly and blatantly as Bush.

yes, bush did squander quite alot of world sympathy, especially amongst our allies, i'll grant you that. now, the question is, will kerry's pro war, policies fix that.....hmmm, i think not.

Kerry HAS TO be different, if for no other reason than people damn well demand a change after what Bush has done.

no, actually he doesnt. you put alot of faith in professional politicians. the ABB camp would vote for a drunk monkey this election, claiming it would better than Bush. yes, people claim to be demanding change. how many of them will actually vote outside of the republi-crat camp this year? very very very few. so much for change eh?

in fact, people really dont want change. if they had, they would have voted for a democratic canidate that would put an end to the war, would have stood up for gay rights, would take a stand on abortion etc etc etc. if they really wanted change, Kerry would not be a canidate.

*note* i cant believe im actually quasi defending bush. what a sad state of affairs when i, propbably the most anti bush memeber of this forum, have to defend the man against such ridiculous accusations.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by lazysmurff

mark your calenders, thats a first. (ill even forgive the horrible misspelling of my name )

Sorry about the name its a classic case of fat finger typing. I will work on it.

Lazysmurff
Lazysmurff
Lazysmurff
Lazysmurff

See I am getting it.

[lazysmurff]

hahahaha

that warranted a good chuckle