spark, but no fuel and no start

[weloveiggy]

A friends car (a 2000 cavalier with a 2.2) died on the way home. I am led to beleive it gave no warning & just slowly lost power until it died. She tried to start it until the battery went dead. It will turn over, but won't start.
This is what I know and/or have done so far...
The alternator is ok. The coil packs are ok. The fuel pump relay is ok.
I replaced the fuel filter and the plugs, no change.
I can hear the fuel pump whirring when I turn the key.
If you dump some gas into the air intake, the car will run for about 8-10 seconds & then die.

I don't think the check engine light is on, but I tried to connect a scanner to the ODBII connector & it didn't work. I checked for voltage between pin 4 and pin 16, as the scanner manual suggested, no voltage.

Another friend came over & made a 10 second acessment of the problem & said the fuel pump is bad.

Several questions...
1) Can the fuel pump make that whirring noise yet still need replacing?
2) Would there be voltage between pins 4 & 16 on the ODBII connector ONLY if the check engine light is on? If not, what does that mean?
3) Could it just be a clogged pickup filter on the fuel pump?
4) Could it be a fuel pressure problem instead of the pump?

I will be pissed if I replace the fuel pump & it turns out to be something else.

ANY information is greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Don

[public]

1. Yes it could be a pressure problem. A gague can be attached under the hood to check for pressure.
2. don't know.
3.Yes
4.Yes
I would want to get a scanner on this car to see if the injectors have been shut off for some reason.

Not to offend but I would also check for a loose connector on the injector harness.
Good Luck.

[weloveiggy]

Thanks.
I don't have a gauge to check the fuel pressure at this time. I'm not sure what kind of reading to expect with the car not running.

No offense taken, I appreciate the suggestion. Each injector has it's own connector & then the wires just dissapear into the main harness. I'd like to beleive that something caused the injectors to not work properly.

More questions then answers...
Can I test a connector from one of the injectors to see if it is getting a signal?
Would the throttle position sensor cause such a problem?
Crank sensor?

Anything that might keep me from replacing that fuel pump (unless it needs it)

Thanks again,
Don

[richtazz]

First thing you need to do is check the fuel pressure. You can buy an inexpensive pressure tester at Auto Zone or Advance, around $35. the fuel pressure should be 41 psi minimum. You can test the pressure regulator by pinching the return line. If the pressure shoots up, its the regulator, if not it's the pump.

[public]

Yes you can check the injector plug for signal if wish. A haynes manual would give you the numbers. If you have a signal then you are looking at the fuel pump, regulator, filter, or lines. Good Luck.

[jayson716]

bad ground maybe when i installed my motor in my car i messed up a ground and the car would turn over but not start i found a bad ground in my system (not sure what it went to) i replaced that and car fired right up.

[weloveiggy]

The mystery continues.
Before I had a chance to buy a fuel pressure gauge my friend had someone replace the fuel pump.

She called to say they ran it down the road several miles, on the highway for a short while & back home. When she tried to start it later in the day, it was turning over, but not starting again.

I called the guy who put the pump in & he said they had to "prime" the fuel system by pouring some gas in the throttle body. He said they would put a little in & it would run for a bit & then quit, so they dumped a cupful of gas in there & then it ran ok.

More questions...
1) Could the car have run for several miles on the gas in the throttle body?
2) Does the fuel pressure regulator mostly help to start the car & then the fuel pump takes over when it is running.

I can't explain why the car would run for a while & later on we are back to the same old problem.

Right now she can't afford the gauge or the regulator, so it will wait.

Any info would be great.

[richtazz]

the pressure regulator works all the time. It adjusts the amount of fuel returned to the tank as teh car runs, and will cause a hard start situation if the diaphragm inside the regulator goes bad. The regulator lets the pressure bleed off, and teh 2-3 second key on pulse is not enough to get the pressure up where the car will start. IT is a HORRIBLE practice to put gasoline directly into a MFI intake, as it is designed for air only and can cause vacuum leaks at best, and a manifold explosion at worst. You should never have to "prime" a fuel injected engine. as soon as you turn on the key, the fuel pump cycles to prime the system. It would only run a few seconds at best on the gas poured in, and the regulator held jsut enough to keep it running until the car was shut off. I hate to say it, but your friend wasted the money on the fuel pump, she needs a regulator.

[weloveiggy]

This is exactly what I feared. At least I know I can change the regulator myself. I'll let you know how it works out. Thanks everybody for your help! I really appreciate it.

[weloveiggy]

Now I'm really stumped.
The car still won't start.
New fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator & fuel filter.
Coil packs are ok, plugs are new - It's getting spark.

It acts like it wants to start every once and a while, but only for a few seconds.

I'm left with what??

Simultaneous failure of all four injectors?

After I changed the regulator, I started the car with the air intake removed. I figured if it didn't run, at least that was one thing that I wouldn't have to remove again. The car stared up and ran for at least 30-45 seconds. I said hooray, put the intake back on & then...nothing. Back to the same old problem.

One thing I did notice was that the vacuum line to the regulator was pinched at some point & the line was at least partially restricted. I replaced the hose & that didn't help at all.

Could the fact that this may have been pinched cause the fuel pressure to rise & somehow caused all of the injectors to fail??

I'm lost.

[public]

Check for a loose harness plug. 4 injectors at once. I don't think so.

[weloveiggy]

I'll keep looking.
Although, I have been looking for a loose connector since day one.
That would be too easy.
Maybe a computer problem?? Something not telling the injectors to... "inject", for lack of a better term??

Thanks!

[public]

The ignition module is responsible for spark and fuel up to 400 rpm then the ECM takes over. Autozone will test the module for free if you take it to them. If it is okay then check the oil sending unit and the crank position sensor. You MUST have oil pressure on this motor before the module will allow fuel or spark. If the crank sensor goes bad the module will not know the engine is turning.

[richtazz]

I agree with public,first test the ign module, the oil pressure sensor would be my next thing to try, and if that doesn't fix it, the crank sensor would be next.

[public]

Gotta get ready for another G%$#D&%^ hurricane.
Hope your car is fixed soon. Hopefully I'll be back here on Wednesday of next week to help. I live in Volusia County Florida AKA Storm Central. Glad I am going into this one with no damage.