Used Saturn

[Chris101]

OK, I had some problems trying to get it started hot today. I was going to a few places, and at two different times the car would just refuse to start. I drove maybe 15 miles and then it sat in a parking lot for about five minutes and when I went to start it, it wouldn't. After three attempts in five minute intervals, I got it going the forth try. The forth try it spuddered a little bit until I pressed on the gas then it started right up and idled just fine. I repeated the same thing the second time it happend. Is the computer screwing with the engine? Vapor lock? Fuel pump? It was fairly warm today, but the temperature gage never went above where it normally stays, which is about 1/4 of the way. It is also the first time out after I changed the oil.

Other than the hard starting today, I've had no other problems at all with it. Any idea about what's up? Thanks for the help already contributed by the way

[sierrap615]

the hard starting and low temp reading(should be closer to 1/2) are both signs of a bad ECT

[Chris101]

I replaced the sensor this morning and now it starts hot just fine

I'm still not going any where near 1/2 of the way on the temp gauge. Could this possibly be because the fan is always on? I'll try and get some pictures up tomorrow of the radiator and other stuff.

[sierrap615]

may be, don't forget to see if you can find a part number on the fan

[Chris101]

A friend of mine let me use some his webspace so I can post some images. There was a recall sticker on the top of the radiator fan. I searched for it on Google and found the fan was originally from a '94 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera Cruiser. The link below will show all of the images I took. If you don't have a pop-up blocker, prepare to get pissed.

http://rantbitch.0catch.com/Saturn.htm

The first images is just an overview of the engine. The second is showing how the top of the radiator is bolted in. The third is an image taken from on top of the valve cover looking at the fan. The forth is from underneith, showing how the fan is wired in.

[sierrap615]

yep, thats not right, but if it works, it works(besure the fan is blowing towards the engine, not towards the front of the car.)

to get the thing running right, you are going to need to trace the wiring. also pull the cooling fan fuse and relay, see if the fan still works. see if there are any loose connectors or wiring near the fan.

[Chris101]

Yup, the fan is blowing toward the engine (I thought this was kind of strange at first). Anyway, I would like to get it working properly. It'll have to wait until the weekend though, I have to make use of it during the week. I don't want to screw something up and only have one night to fix it, you know? With the engine running as cold as it is now would I be burning fuel effieciantly?

[sierrap615]

the car runs the most effective in closed loop mode. open loop mode is used for start-up. closed loop mode kicks in when the O2 sensor reaches 600F. so it will effect it some, i don't think by that much. i bet the new ECT gave you better gas mileage.

start looking at the wiring, tell me how its hooked up, check the things i said in the last post, maybe take a picture or two, and i'll try to tell you what to do.

[Chris101]

Will do. Like I said before, I'd like to wait until this weekend so I have some f-up time to work with. I'll get some more images and such probably Friday night or Saturday afternoon. I bought a Haynes service manual and it's got some wiring diagrams and such in it. Should be helpful . I don't know what I'd be doing at this point without the help from this forum. Thanks a lot.

[sierrap615]

you think i'm good? check out the forums on saturnfans.com

the haynes manual has good wiring diagrams, if you can see anything abnormal before friday, it will give us a head start.

[Chris101]

I have. These forums and the ones of Saturnfans are great. It's nice to get some free support from people who actually have hands on experience with Saturns.

Should all of the stuff on the radio light up? The only thing that is lit is the volume nob and the nobs for the treble, bass, and balance. It's a tad annoying to have to 'feel' around the radio to find the right buttons in the dark and not knowing what stations you are tunned to.

[sierrap615]

there are several small lights inside the radio, pain in the ass to change. one of the bulbs on the 91-94s can't be change i think.

after you get the radio out of the dash, you haft to take it apart to get to the bulbs

[Chris101]

Sorry I couldn't get this done over the weekend, some stuff came up. Anyway, I took a closer look at everything with the fan and it's pretty rigged in there. The wires go from the fan to a relay that was rigged in there from a Nissan, and then one of the wires goes to a fuse (fuel injector or something?) in the fuse box under the hood. There is also one wire that was just cut and left behind. The link has some pictures of what I'm talking about.

Obviously it's a bit difficult to determine what is best on your end since you don't have physical access to the car, but I think I'm leaning a bit towards, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I don't really know if there is really a problem with the engine being as cool as it is all the time, especially during the winter. I'm in upstate NY and it can get pretty cold here.

One more thing, what kind of plugs should I use? I bought some Champions and when I was inspecting them today, one of the little bastards broke in two in the socket. I put the old ones back in and it actually idles and runs better than it did with the new ones in there. The old ones are Bosch Platinum by the way, I thought Saturns didn't really like them. I'd hate to go to the dealership, they'll probably charge me $4 a piece...

Silly me, I forgot to add the images. They arn't the best views in the world, ask me to take more if needed. The first one is a picture of the relay that was stuck in there. The second is the wire that is tapped off of one of the fuses in the fuse box, and the last one is the cut wire. It is just behind the transmision dip stick and goes down into a a bunch of other wires in a plastic tube.

http://rantbitch.0catch.com/rigged.htm

[sierrap615]

don't use platiums, try to find some NGK V-power. if your local parts store don't have them, SPSwebpage.com does.

so as it stands your saturn has a oldsmobile fan with nissan wiring? ok then....

just took a look under my hood to trace the wires -

two thick wires(blank and black/pink) should be connected to the fan motor.
those two wires head to the A/C and join together with those wires
they then head to the passinger side headlight
all the wires exit the wire coating and go off everywhere, including a ground splice.
some of the wires enter another coating that head over the radiator to the fuse block.

[sierrap615]

if you could take a picture of the wiring harness behind the headlight, it may help. running to cold can make the oil to thick, and yes, i know of new york winters, at that cold, you do not want the fan running.