Best car for around 20-30k?

[CrzyMR2T]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

Yes a lot of people seem to have an unatural hate towards the srt4 and like to spread false rumors.

The srt4 is bulletproof here is the link for that:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr...0scc_projneon/

its handling is not at evo levels but its very good, especially since the 04 s come with a quiafe stock. Plus the handling can be tremendously improved with a stage 3 mopar coilovers custom made by the german kw

fyi i posted a video a while ago in street racing of an modded srt4 gaining on a modded nsx in the curves

also very lightly modded one won 8th overall last year in the one lap
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=6

the interior its true is made by rubbermaid but the evo is no bentley either.

The Mr will come out anytime now and it will be around 33K

videos like that arent very accurate on how well a car handles. an excellent driver could make a honda crx outhandle a ferrari modena.

[CrzyMR2T]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

you can get some aftermark stuff for the srt4 to change a bit its looks. Of course looks are always subjective, I for once find the srt4 decent looking but again its a personal thing.


The WRX is a fine car, i just find it a bit too softly sprung stock. nothing aftermaked can't change though. Also its turbo is quite laggy compared to the srt4

sti is again very nice but all comparos say that the evo is by far a better handling car. They need to bring the spec c stateside badly

i dont know about evos being by far the better handling car. they were both pretty close from what ive read. the sti is softer than the evo with a bit more understeer, and the evos steering ratio is smaller, but im sure you know, you could fix that with some good suspension tuning.

[kman10587]

They're close enough that the majority of drivers won't be able to tell the difference. The STi is noticeably more comfortable, though, at least to me.

[Stratocaster5292]

Personally I think for 30k you could get a nice Esprit Turbo. Its a rare car, its fast, and could out handle any of the above mentioned cars.

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by Salamander

Alot of my friends have cobras, not looking for one of them. Psh, STi all teh way!

so do you what opinions from us or where you expecting us to sing praises to your obvious choice: STI

Originally Posted by CrzyMR2T

videos like that arent very accurate on how well a car handles. an excellent driver could make a honda crx outhandle a ferrari modena.

I was not trying to say that srt4s handle better than nsx, all i was trying to point out was that srt4s can handle despite stupid rumors.

Originally Posted by CrzyMR2T

i dont know about evos being by far the better handling car. they were both pretty close from what ive read. the sti is softer than the evo with a bit more understeer, and the evos steering ratio is smaller, but im sure you know, you could fix that with some good suspension tuning.

well every comparo that i have seen so far noted the EVO as significantly better handler.

quote from the latest SCC

"The thousands of dollars of suspension work we've done to the sti have delivered test numbers fairly close to the EVO's, but the true handling envelope is nowhere near the same"

[CrzyMR2T]

i think that quote from scc is more opinions than facts. they might be talking about how the car feels to drive, if so, then it has a lot to do with steering ratio, which you can get for the sti. the sti can get similar steering ratio as the evo. the sti is better balanced overall too, its front to rear, and left to right is more evenly distributed. when turning, theres less load on the outside tires, because of its symmetrical layout. the sti in japan handles just as good as the evo without all those computers, like ayc, and acd. the evo has slightly higher corner entry speed, while the sti has better overall cornering speed. the evo uses more computers, while the sti uses more balance, but both cars are really close in overall performance.

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by CrzyMR2T

i think that quote from scc is more opinions than facts. they might be talking about how the car feels to drive, if so, then it has a lot to do with steering ratio, which you can get for the sti. the sti can get similar steering ratio as the evo. the sti is better balanced overall too, its front to rear, and left to right is more evenly distributed. when turning, theres less load on the outside tires, because of its symmetrical layout. the sti in japan handles just as good as the evo without all those computers, like ayc, and acd. the evo has slightly higher corner entry speed, while the sti has better overall cornering speed. the evo uses more computers, while the sti uses more balance, but both cars are really close in overall performance.

well even if its opinion, that scc article was a sample of what every single reviewer sais. When c&d got former rally leggend Rod Millen to test them he also said the same thing. Clarkson liked the sti better but again he also admited the evo is the better track car, and when stig tested them the evo simply murdered the sti on top gear's track. Evo magazine tested them and again same thing and those are in the UK so they get the JDMish versions. So I think its pretty safe to assume that the EVO is fater than the STI.

However in many tests the Spec C comes back and beats all the EVOs, I'm not sure what subbie does (maybe they got two big NOS bottles from Harry's) that the C is way way faster than the regular STI. Spec C is the only version of STI i would serioulsy consider getting

[kman10587]

I think the Spec C is just a lot lighter.

[CrzyMR2T]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

well even if its opinion, that scc article was a sample of what every single reviewer sais. When c&d got former rally leggend Rod Millen to test them he also said the same thing. Clarkson liked the sti better but again he also admited the evo is the better track car, and when stig tested them the evo simply murdered the sti on top gear's track. Evo magazine tested them and again same thing and those are in the UK so they get the JDMish versions. So I think its pretty safe to assume that the EVO is fater than the STI.

However in many tests the Spec C comes back and beats all the EVOs, I'm not sure what subbie does (maybe they got two big NOS bottles from Harry's) that the C is way way faster than the regular STI. Spec C is the only version of STI i would serioulsy consider getting

yea, i know about some of those articles, but you have to see the little details of why the evo feels or performs the way it does, like stiffer suspensions, closer steering ratio, and computers, which are things that can be changed on the sti, except for the computer part. it depends on what track either cars are on, but both are really close. the latest japanese sti spec c always lapped slightly quicker than the evo of the same class. it shows how much balance, and handling the sti has achieve without the use of computers, even if its slightly lighter. if the sti used computers like the evo, im sure it would dominate in every area, because of its better balance. a lot of articles are full of opinions, and it does give pretty good information, but to get the best information, you should actually test drive one yourself.

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by CrzyMR2T

yea, i know about some of those articles, but you have to see the little details of why the evo feels or performs the way it does, like stiffer suspensions, closer steering ratio, and computers, which are things that can be changed on the sti, except for the computer part. it depends on what track either cars are on, but both are really close. the latest japanese sti spec c always lapped slightly quicker than the evo of the same class. it shows how much balance, and handling the sti has achieve without the use of computers, even if its slightly lighter. if the sti used computers like the evo, im sure it would dominate in every area, because of its better balance. a lot of articles are full of opinions, and it does give pretty good information, but to get the best information, you should actually test drive one yourself.

Well your profile doesn't say if you are from the US or not so I'm not sure if you know this but here is the STI that has more electronics than the EVO and the EVO still won every road course test.

USDM evos only have abs and brake distribution for electronics, and the rs version has simply 0 electronic help and that is even faster. On the other hand USDM STIs have a state of the art DCCD.

And i know i quote a lot from mags but when all the mags and even a former profesional rally driver say the same thing I tend to believe them.

About me test driving them, I think most dealers would have some issues with me if I would try to take them on an autox course and test them side by side.

[youngvr4]

with 20 grand you can get a 97 3000gt VR4. it weighs the amount of a trans am ws6, but i own one. it handles like a champ at high speeds, steering is quick and responsive.

95-97 VR4: 15grand
with 5 grand you can have a low 12's high 11's vehicle and still drive it dailey.

skidpad .90g(though thats not the all to handling, it does say something)

i personaly have 150,000 miles on my vr4 and my blocking rings have been the only problem i've had. engine still runs like a champ!

VR4: 1/4 mile 13.5 top speed 170mph(if not electronicaly limited)
320hp
315lbs tq
AWD
AWS


btw: there are ways of loosing lots of wieght without striping the interior.

if your interested in the 3000gt VR4, stop by in the 3000gt forum, and well answer your questions. along with talk you into buying this amazing vehicle

[kman10587]

You'll never convert me! SupraTT/300ZX TT for life!

[CrzyMR2T]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

Well your profile doesn't say if you are from the US or not so I'm not sure if you know this but here is the STI that has more electronics than the EVO and the EVO still won every road course test.

USDM evos only have abs and brake distribution for electronics, and the rs version has simply 0 electronic help and that is even faster. On the other hand USDM STIs have a state of the art DCCD.

And i know i quote a lot from mags but when all the mags and even a former profesional rally driver say the same thing I tend to believe them.

About me test driving them, I think most dealers would have some issues with me if I would try to take them on an autox course and test them side by side.

yea i know the us spec evo doesnt have those electronics, but it has stiffer suspensions, closer steering ratio, and less understeer than the us spec sti. plus the evo barely wins on those test courses. you gotta look at all the details, im sure if you stiffened up the sti, added closer steering ratio, and dialed in more oversteer, you would feel a lot of difference in handling, and a lot of improvements in track times.

im sure most would agree, that the best way to get to know a car, is to test drive one yourself, not just reading about it. im not saying that that you shouldnt agree with those quotes, i mean i agree with most of them, but the best way to know, is to drive one yourself.

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by CrzyMR2T

yea i know the us spec evo doesnt have those electronics, but it has stiffer suspensions, closer steering ratio, and less understeer than the us spec sti. plus the evo barely wins on those test courses. you gotta look at all the details, im sure if you stiffened up the sti, added closer steering ratio, and dialed in more oversteer, you would feel a lot of difference in handling, and a lot of improvements in track times.

im sure most would agree, that the best way to get to know a car, is to test drive one yourself, not just reading about it. im not saying that that you shouldnt agree with those quotes, i mean i agree with most of them, but the best way to know, is to drive one yourself.

well you are already talking about modifying the STI to keep up with the evo. When you start bringing mods into the discussion it will never end since theoretically you can take even a geo and make it beat an evo with enough money.

And about testdriving them myself I've tried, dealers here don't even allow them to be taken off the lot, let alone pushing them hard enough to see how well they handle.

[CrzyMR2T]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

well you are already talking about modifying the STI to keep up with the evo. When you start bringing mods into the discussion it will never end since theoretically you can take even a geo and make it beat an evo with enough money.

And about testdriving them myself I've tried, dealers here don't even allow them to be taken off the lot, let alone pushing them hard enough to see how well they handle.

you were talking about how the sti here in the us has more electronics than the evo, which is nothing like the ayc, or acd in the japanese evo, and that the evo out handles the sti, which is not by a lot, so i simply stated reasons why the evo feels or handles the way it does. still, the sti is considered to have a more balanced layout, and a better awd system, while the evo has better computers, ayc, and acd. in that car and driver magazine, they said that there were disadvantages to the sti's handling, cause of its front lsd, which i think is because of the type of lsd its using, good for acceleration, but not turning. i think the evo rs uses the prefered type of lsd on the front for turning.

im not telling you to go out and try to test drive them, i am simply saying that it would be better if you got to drive them both yourself.