Blow Off Valve For Mr-2

[MR2Chick]

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

the problem, in my experience, isn't the ricers. it's the performance nazis who think everyone should conform to their vision of what makes a cool car, and whoever doesn't is automatically stupid and/or a ricer. THEY'RE the ones talking the shit, not the ricers. trouble is, they're also the ones who get overly defensive when someone calls them out. if you're going to belittle people on message boards, you better be able to take it as well as dish it out.

So what now, I should get offended that you've called me a performance nazi and blast you for that? I really don't care if Hondachili has a BOV. I wouldn't put one on mine, because I don't understand modifications that will cost you $$$ and performance.
Getting overly defensive? not really... I just think that perhaps I should clear things up when I am interpreted wrong. You can call me a performance nazi until the cows come home, pigs fly and hell freezes over. My original comment's sole purpose was to be funny, not get you guys riled up about "rice". Touchy touchy.
Why would any of you care that I (and a girl to boot ) think that I think that aftermarket BOVs in this case are dumb and ricey.

Anyway, I'm sorry, perhaps I should keep my comments to myself, but it makes the forum more interesting. - oh and GET A SENSE OF HUMOR BOYS.
-Jess

[JekylandHyde]

Originally Posted by MR2Chick

Why would any of you care that I (and a girl to boot )

There is no reason to discredit your contribution because you are female.
Chicks are great ... and can add a whole new perspective to lots of things automotive.

Originally Posted by MR2Chick

Anyway, I'm sorry, perhaps I should keep my comments to myself.

Please don't.

Originally Posted by MR2Chick

but it makes the forum more interesting.

Yes.

[scarecrowX]

No.
Valves are designed to open when the throttle plate closes and there is boost pressure in the intake system.
That is not a vacuum.

The OEM BPV will open under normal driving vaccum (unboosted driving) to let air go the opposite way through the valve (compared to when venting boost) toward the intercooler.
That is the by-pass function.
The air is allowed to "by-pass" the turbocharger.

So, NO, BOVs do not open under vacuum unless the spring tension is not adjusted properly.
They open from boost pressure when the throttle plate closes.

find yourself a dsm. let it idle. pop the recirculating pipe off and watch the engine die. why? because the valve is open at that point. why? because vacuum on the diaphragm is overcoming the spring pressure. this allows it to work in bypass mode. the aftermarket twin chamber valves, if set up with the same one way restrictor in the lower boost port, will work as a bypass. the pressure differential allows engine vacuum to overcome the spring and open the valve. i've done it. i've actually placed my finger inside the valve housing and blipped the throttle with the vac lines set up like this and felt the valve opening and closing. if you do not believe me, try it yourself. you will see that i am neither lying nor mistaken.

You clearly discussed the improvement your valve made on a cold engine.
If you are discussing your GReddy valve's performance, you most certainly are implying that you were boosting.
The GReddy valve does not open (or do anything else) except when venting boost.
Boosting on a cold engine is bad.

i said nothing about the way the valve itself affected the car's driveability. i spoke of HOW the valve was incorporated affecting the driveability. it clearly made an improvent in off-boost driveability- especially when the engine is cold. instead of asking why, you insist that i am wrong. again, you are drawing conclusions based upon information you do not have, nor made any effort to acquire. that said, let's talk about your "motives..."

as far as what you said about education, i am not trying to teach anything, i'm simply offering my experiences and observations. someone who's truly interested in the education of others would, instead of insisting that i am wrong and don't know what i'm talking about, look into WHY my car works better when others do not. they would try to ascertain what is different about my car that makes it respond differently. they would try to learn something. you chose to try to make me look like an idiot. you can spout off about education and helping until you are blue in the face, but your actions speak louder than your words. you are truly interested in belittling those you do not agree with or this entire argument would never have happened in the first place..

Originally Posted by MR2chick

So what now, I should get offended that you've called me a performance nazi and blast you for that?

please re-read what you quoted and tell me where i called you a performance nazi.

I really don't care if Hondachili has a BOV. I wouldn't put one on mine, because I don't understand modifications that will cost you $$$ and performance.

fair enough. but if you do not understand it, who are you to criticize it? i don't think i'm being unfair in asking that, nor am i intending to put you down in any way. i'm just trying to comprehend why you feel the need to criticize someone on a matter you just admitted you do not understand- especially without making an effort to understand it.

Getting overly defensive? not really... I just think that perhaps I should clear things up when I am interpreted wrong. You can call me a performance nazi until the cows come home, pigs fly and hell freezes over.

again, did i say you were getting overly defensive? i was comparing ricers with performance nazis. any identification you've made with either group is your own doing and was not my intention.
i'm glad you feel the need to clear things up when you are misinterpreted. i hope you can see that i am trying to do the same.

My original comment's sole purpose was to be funny, not get you guys riled up about "rice". Touchy touchy.

your original comment isn't what started this, calling hondachili names was. and quite frankly it's not that big a deal either way, i just don't like to see people get attacked for liking something others don't. maybe i am a little touchy. i apologize.

Why would any of you care that I (and a girl to boot ) think that I think that aftermarket BOVs in this case are dumb and ricey.

fair enough. that's a perfectly valid opinion. all i'm trying to point out is that there is a distinction between having an opinion ("blow off valves are dumb and ricey") and demeaning someone for having an opinion ("people who use blow off valves are dumb and ricey"). your second post was of the latter persuasion. i was simply pointing out that that's not very nice.

i like intelligent discussions though. this has been fun.

[JekylandHyde]

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

because vacuum on the diaphragm is overcoming the spring pressure.

I would enjoy seeing your engines vacuum be able to over come the spring pressure.
Let's assume it does. What is the point?
The whole point of the by-pass feature is so the engine does not have to "work" to pull air over the turbocharger. So you have set your ups to make it "work" to pull the spring open ... what's the point? Again, you are spending time and money engineering something that works flawlessly.

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

It clearly made an improvent in off-boost driveability- especially when the engine is cold. instead of asking why, you insist that i am wrong. again, you are drawing conclusions

You are correct. I did draw a conclusion without all of the information.
I would never have guessed that you would go through so much trouble to make your GReddy BOV work as a by-pass valve while simultaneously defeating the purpose of having the by-pass feature in the first place.

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

as far as what you said about education, i am not trying to teach anything, i'm simply offering my experiences and observations.

And I am correcting the errors as I see them.
There are many holes in your logic. I am merely pointing them out.
If you take my words as belittling, that is your issue, not mine.

I can not even begin to share how MR2 owners I have seen with problems of daily running conditions with the use of aftermarket BOVs.

My motive here is to prevent people from wasting $250+ on a part that will hurt performance. If they choose to still buy it, that is there option.
I would hate for them to think there is a magical recipe to make a spring-designed BOV work as well as the OEM unit.

The only justification for an aftermarket valve is because you want the noise ... and I would be the last to criticise that. To each their own.

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

instead of insisting that i am wrong and don't know what i'm talking about, look into WHY my car works better when others do not.

Whoever said your car works better?
Show me your car works better.

[HondaChili]

Originally Posted by MR2Chick

Getting overly defensive? not really... I just think that perhaps I should clear things up when I am interpreted wrong. You can call me a performance nazi until the cows come home, pigs fly and hell freezes over. My original comment's sole purpose was to be funny, not get you guys riled up about "rice". Touchy touchy.
Why would any of you care that I (and a girl to boot ) think that I think that aftermarket BOVs in this case are dumb and ricey.

Anyway, I'm sorry, perhaps I should keep my comments to myself, but it makes the forum more interesting. - oh and GET A SENSE OF HUMOR BOYS.
-Jess

Hmmm i woiuld understand that your first comment was a joke and maybe i shouldnt have replied the way i did. But your second statement couldve been a little more clear on the joke part. Its kinda hard to understand your expression on a forum y'know. Maybe next time add a lil "j/k's, or comments that are clearly in humor" then things wouldnt have come to this. However, i did not get offended, hey its not like i've never called anyone a ricer. in anycase mainpoint is some like the BOV's for sound some dont, just the way it is. Now can we please shut this thread and move on. I think the past three pages have answered the original question with crystal clearness...But hey mr2 chick just to be fair, ill argue with you on a different thread next time.

[scarecrowX]

Originally Posted by JekylandHyde

I would enjoy seeing your engines vacuum be able to over come the spring pressure.
Let's assume it does. What is the point?
The whole point of the by-pass feature is so the engine does not have to "work" to pull air over the turbocharger. So you have set your ups to make it "work" to pull the spring open ... what's the point? Again, you are spending time and money engineering something that works flawlessly.

see, the funny thing is i spent minimal time and a grand total of $0 making it do what it's doing. i'm making due with the parts i have available to me, i'm just being creative about it.
what's the point of being able to open the valve? you answered your own question. i shouldn't have to spell that out.

the point is pretty obvious, had you read my previous posts. if you honestly need me to point it out, just say so and i will, but i'm hoping i won't have to.

You are correct. I did draw a conclusion without all of the information.
I would never have guessed that you would go through so much trouble to make your GReddy BOV work as a by-pass valve while simultaneously defeating the purpose of having the by-pass feature in the first place.

again, you are operating under the assumption that that is what i've done to it. in saying so, i was merely pointing out that the greddy valve can, in fact, be set up to operate that way. in fact, it was designed to. at no point, however, did i say that that is how it's installed on my car.

And I am correcting the errors as I see them.
There are many holes in your logic. I am merely pointing them out.
If you take my words as belittling, that is your issue, not mine.

you've corrected the error i made in saying the two valves are identical. everything else thus for, you've made up by drawing conclusions while not having enough info to do so. based on that, whose logic is erroneous? as for these holes in my logic, you've yet to actually point any out. with the exception of the mistake that i readily admitted to, everything else has been mere misunderstanding which i have been more than happy to clear up, and will continue to do so as you continue to misconstrue the things i say. i have neither backpeddled nor changed my stance on anything i have said thus far.

My motive here is to prevent people from wasting $250+ on a part that will hurt performance. If they choose to still buy it, that is there option.
I would hate for them to think there is a magical recipe to make a spring-designed BOV work as well as the OEM unit.

my reasoning for offering what i have is for those who bought their cars equipped with aftermarket valves, as i did, to get the best performance possible out of them. as i said, i'm making due with what i have, and the net result thus far is that i've found my car drives better out of boost than any other MR2 i've driven- including those i've driven that were equipped with OEM valves. in boost, i can find no discernable difference. i never stated i could in any of my posts, though i can see where you jumped to the conclusion that i did.

i'm just repeating myself though. the answers to everything you're questioning are in my previous posts- if you would just read them carefully enough and not jump to conclusions.

Whoever said your car works better?
Show me your car works better.

*sigh* i've addressed this point already. i said it. re-read my posts and you will fully understand why i've said it and why i am qualified to say it.

again, your questioning of me is based on you misinterpreting what you quoted me as saying. let me reiterate:

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

scarecrowX
instead of insisting that i am wrong and don't know what i'm talking about, look into WHY my car works better when others do not.

again, if education/helping mattered in the least to you, you would question why my car responds to this situation better (or even, for that matter, differently) than all the others that you have seen problems with. you would be interested in what is different about my car/setup that makes it drive better with an aftermarket valve when other cars drive worse with aftermarket valves? you have not done this. therefore, i stand by my conclusion about your motives stated in my previous post, and with valid and sound logical reasoning to back it up. you leave little room to question the consistency of what i say when you do not do so yourself.

[JekylandHyde]

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

see, the funny thing is i spent minimal time and a grand total of $0 making it do what it's doing.

I spent 0$ and zero time.

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

what's the point of being able to open the valve? you answered your own question. i shouldn't have to spell that out.

You are correct. I did answer the question as to what is the point.
Let me go over it again:

The whole point of the by-pass feature is so the engine does not have to "work" to pull air over the turbocharger. So you claim "the greddy" can be set up to make it "work" to pull the spring open.

The point of the by-pass feature is to reduce the "work" the engine has to do.
Your example with the GReddy, increases the amount of work the engine has to do.
So the logic of even bothering to do this (free or not) is flawed.
Whether this is how it is installed on your car or not, does not change the physics. So who cares if it is actually on your car. That has zero bearing on the debate.

If this is not what you have done to your car, why even bother bringing it up as an example?

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

again, you are operating under the assumption that that is what i've done to it. in saying so, i was merely pointing out that the greddy valve can, in fact, be set up to operate that way. in fact, it was designed to. at no point, however, did i say that that is how it's installed on my car.

See above. For the purposes of debating the engineering involved it makes no difference if you have it installed on your car. It would be pointless to make the engine work to pull on a spring so bother bringing up such a poor point?

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

you've corrected the error i made in saying the two valves are identical. everything else thus for, you've made up by drawing conclusions while not having enough info to do so. based on that, whose logic is erroneous?

The only "conclusion" I drew was assuming the valve in your example was on your car.
Again, who cares if it on your car?!
It makes no difference in the debate.

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

i have neither backpeddled nor changed my stance on anything i have said thus far.

That doesn't make you are correct.

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

my reasoning for offering what i have is for those who bought their cars equipped with aftermarket valves, as i did, to get the best performance possible out of them.

And that would be done by installing the OEM valve.

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

as i said, i'm making due with what i have, and the net result thus far is that i've found my car drives better out of boost than any other MR2 i've driven- including those i've driven that were equipped with OEM valves.

There are many factors that affect how an MR2 drives off boost beyond the BPV. The choice of turbocharger, the exhaust, intake, cams, tuning, spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor .... shall I go on?

Regardless, you are debating your opinion that it drives better, which is amusing coming from someone on page 1 of this thread who was asking for imperical data.

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

in boost, i can find no discernable difference.

And why would you? "Any" valve that is functioning properly (regardless of design) would be closed during boost; therefore, not affecting performance at all.

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

again, if education/helping mattered in the least to you, you would question why my car responds to this situation better (or even, for that matter, differently) than all the others that you have seen problems with. you would be interested in what is different about my car/setup that makes it drive better with an aftermarket valve when other cars drive worse with aftermarket valves?

If knowledge and education is important to me (which it is), the first thing I would want to know is the justification that your car does in fact drive better. Demonstrate that your car drives better and I will be interested. Your butt dyno and it's claim have no value to me.

Originally Posted by scarecrowX

you have not done this. therefore, i stand by my conclusion about your motives stated in my previous post, and with valid and sound logical reasoning to back it up. you leave little room to question the consistency of what i say when you do not do so yourself.

*seriously rolls eyes*
If you are still entertaining this discussion, why on Earth would I have to ask you about your set up?
If your set up is so impressive, why even bring up the GReddy by-pass "feature" which would not be wroht doing?
Why wouldn't you have just talked about your set up?
I didn't ask you to bring up the silly business with the GReddy valve, so why would I have to inquire about your car?

I will fully admit at this point that we are way beyond educating and informing the "readers". I hope they have understood the points I made back on the first page and if not at least I presented it to them.
I fully admit from here forward I simply finding this discussion entertaining, but I resolve to keep my points to debating the engineering.

[HondaChili]

Alright, its gotten out of hand. Can a local moderator close this thread please. Its way off topic, i think it'd be better if this was stripped.