GM Sucks

[gonenuts15792]

"If you think that BMW/Merc/Lexus are crap and Cadillac is great, then you have some issues. How many RWD saloons does Cadillac make, one???? OK thank you, betcha must love all that Torque steer in your FWD V8s."


Actually Torque steer in later models has been illiminated. The CTS is RWD and will soon be offered in AWD, the Escalade is RWD or AWD, the SRX is RWD or AWD, the new Seville will be RWD, and the XLR is RWD. The only model that is still FWD is the Deville.


"BMW and Merc quality is just as good as Cadillac, bar the Merc C-Class and Lexus quality/reliability, is a hell of a lot better, than anything, really and the comfort in all is top notch, but add to that- you get something enjoyable to drive!!! The anti-thesis of most Caddy's."


I have to admit that lexus Quality is better right now(at least that is what the J.D. Power reports says), but the Cadillac is better than Mercedes and BMW in quality and reliability. That says something about Mercedes, BMW and Cadillac, either Mercedes and BMW are slipping in quality or Cadillac is becoming better than Mercedes and BMW, either way I'm happy.


"And I have driven Cadillacs, a few CTS' and a Seville STS, the STS was god-awful, understeer for Africa, too damn big and WAY too wafty."

Gee, maybe thats way Cadillac has discountinued the Seville, that is my least favorite of the Cadillacs also.


"29% is nothing compared to what they once had and if it's falling, then what is preventing it from ffalling further???? Certainly not GM Product."


Well actually the market share has improved from 28% last year to 29% this year. GM must be doing something right with their products.


"Basically, until I See some evidence of GM making something decent that doesn't start with "Cor" and end with "Vette" then I'll start thinking they're back."


The evidence is starting to show. Look at Cadillac they have come from being in a coma to being one of the top American Luxury cars.
Also there was a report that stated that Buick and Chevrolet had some of the highest customer retention in the industry. Look around and you will see the evidence that shows that GM is back( I say this once again).


P.S.
Jimster, I would like to remind you that if you are going to post a reply to something that I wrote, to first get your facts straight. I'm sick of correcting you all the time. It isn't that hard to research a topic before discussing it.

[Jimster]

What facts aren't straight???? Enlighten me......Please.....

Oh and note I said RWD Sedan the SRX and Escalade are both SAV's and the XLR is a roadster. The new Seville has not yet been released, so it doesn't count.

From what I've experienced, in a 2001 STS, the torque steer is alive and well- understeers far too much for any car, allright if you drive on straight American roads, but damn a pain in the ass anywhere else.

Mercedes Benz have taken a quality slip of latem the electrical systems aren't panning out as Merc would like, but the consumer reports would no doubt inspire them to get things right, or risk losing business. The new E Class is so far, so good. BMW quality hasn't alipped either, in fact it has improved! Yes Cadillac quality has improved, but it still had to play catch up to do so.

[justacruiser]

Originally Posted by Jimster

Sorry, but everything you have said reeks of pathetic ignorance- You only buy GM's, you said so yourself, you don't know what BMW"s, Infiniti's, Merc's or Lexus' are like.

I DO! Remember a little spiel I posted on a while ago? About the Volkswagens having the "I can't believe it's not butter" transmissions, (in the way they feel shifting), and the peeling interior, disintegrating dashes, shif linkage breaking... etc. Not to mention I've heard model-T's that sound better. The BMW 'snap-crackle-pop, Euro-crispies' electronics? Lexus is the one to beat, it IS top notch. BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Volvo are all riding their reps and their expensive pricetags. They're nothing but a status symbol and if they don't get their asses in gear, they'll go the way of the 80's Caddies before too long, (people will realize they're shit, and stop buying them).

Originally Posted by Jimster

Oh, did you know that the CTS engines are imported??? The 2.6 and 3.2 are both Opel blocks, yes OPEL- Ze Chermans!!!! and the new 3.6 is coming from Holden in Australia! So stop talking crap about Imported brands

I'm not bagging all imports, Lexus is the best. I'm just bagging shitty cars, which happen to be imports, that everyone thinks are better than Caddy, when they aren't. As for the Opel engines, so what? Why spend the bucks designing something like that when you already own another company that has something to fit your needs?

Originally Posted by Jimster

GM is back??? LEt's see now. They killed the Camaro and Firebird, they have the ancient, lumbering FWD sedans- Cavalier, Seville, Deville, Century, Le Sabre, Regal, Grand Prix, Grand Am etc.

All of which are being redesigned, (minus the Camaro and Firebird). Lutz wants a universal rear wheel drive chassis with the midsizes and fullsizes. The GTO is using the midsize one I believe.

Originally Posted by Jimster

the Opel CTS (Doesn't quite hold the candle to it's competition), the overpriced XLR, there is the ugly AND overpriced SSR and a range of shonky Utes and SUV's. Looks like they're on thier way down. They've already lost a lot of market share and it isn't hard to see why.

The CADDY CTS spanks the competition in price and meets or exceeds them in quality. The XLR is cheaper and has more power, options and better handling than the car it was built to compete with, I'd say that makes it perfect for its intention. As for the Utes and SUVs, well, what can I say, soccer moms are overjoyed... someone at GM knows a cash cow when they see one, even if it does look retarded.

Originally Posted by Jimster

The C6 Corvette is the only glimmer of hope for the ailing GM. Even the European GM offerings suck- except the Saab motors and seats. Thank god GM can't touch Subaru. Holden are about the only good thing GM have got going, really.

European offerings for GM have always sucked, how many American cars did they used to sell there? That's why both Ford and GM did the smart thing, buy out as many European companies as you can to create your market there and you can use their tech as well. Although Ford's been losing money there for a while.

[gonenuts15792]

"What facts aren't straight???? Enlighten me......Please....."


Read your other posts and then research the facts, youll find enough mistakes.


"Oh and note I said RWD Sedan the SRX and Escalade are both SAV's and the XLR is a roadster. The new Seville has not yet been released, so it doesn't count."


In that case Cadillac only has 2 sedans. Most owners of the Deville are old and many want the FWD, because it is easier to handle in slippery conditions, and it is not suppose to be performance oriented so it really doesn't matter. The CTS is RWD and is the only other Sedan that is in production. Cadillac is planning on making most if not all future models either RWD or AWD. Even though the Escalade, SRX, and XLR are not Sedans they are still either RWD or AWD so you can see that Cadillac is getting away from FWD.


"From what I've experienced, in a 2001 STS, the torque steer is alive and well- understeers far too much for any car, allright if you drive on straight American roads, but damn a pain in the ass anywhere else."


By later models I mean 2002 and up, I have drove FWD Cadillacs that are made after that year and torque steer is nonexistence.


"Mercedes Benz have taken a quality slip of latem the electrical systems aren't panning out as Merc would like, but the consumer reports would no doubt inspire them to get things right, or risk losing business. The new E Class is so far, so good. BMW quality hasn't alipped either, in fact it has improved! Yes Cadillac quality has improved, but it still had to play catch up to do so."


I would hope that BMW quality has improved, I had a friend who has a BMW and its in the garage more than it is on the road. I would have to agree with you about Cadillac improving in Quality but still not as good as it could be(but of course neither is Mercedes or BMW).

[Jimster]

Yes, I quite well remember that post abotu the VW's. I also went on to tell you about my brothers German-Jetta (Not Mexican) how it got an easy 200,000 miles on basic maintenence, with nothing falling off. The MExican ones have been known to be shite, the German ones are the way to go.

BMW Electronics don't often go wrong. Early in the last run of the 7 series, there were some cars that became redundant after the electrics gave way, that was sorted a year or so later. Early iDrive systems were troublesome, but BMW have got on top of that now. But otherwise as far as Electronics go, BMW have it down to a fine art usually a year after introducing a complex system.

Go to http://www.topgear.com and have a look at the Top Gear owners survey 2003, you'll see that most German models are up the top in the reliability ranks- except the Merc C and A Class. They manage to be just as good as and better than (In some cases) benchmark Japanese makers and quality-champ Skoda. But anyone who is stupid enough to buy a car in the first production run deserves to be hit with a lemon.

I don't know what's going on at Volvo, but damn, the cars have reputations for being indestructible, as most drivers should know.


The GTO rides on a modified V Body, this is by no means new- the Cadillac Catera and Opel Omega used the same platform.

Glad to see, gonenuts that you can't find anything I've posted as wrong, so kindly, with all due respect STFU.

[gonenuts15792]

Originally Posted by Jimster

Glad to see, gonenuts that you can't find anything I've posted as wrong, so kindly, with all due respect STFU.

I remember a few posts back that I kindly suggested to you the same exact thing. It wasn't put exactly that way but I thought that you would get the point, but no you have to trail on about how good imports are and how shitty General Motors compares.

[justacruiser]

Originally Posted by gonenuts15792

its as simple as you being from Italy.

Dude, better watch what you say on that, I got a warning for that kind of shit, I'd be surprised if a mod didn't jump your ass for saying it. Besides, I like to think it's because he has a lack of experience on just how much American cars have improved over the last 10 years. Hell, the last 5 years! After all, I see LOTS of BMWs VWs Benzs and Volvos on a daily basis. How many CTSs, Sevilles, Devilles etc. do you see in Italy? In Europe as a whole for that matter?

[gonenuts15792]

Originally Posted by justacruiser

Dude, better watch what you say on that, I got a warning for that kind of shit, I'd be surprised if a mod didn't jump your ass for saying it. Besides, I like to think it's because he has a lack of experience on just how much American cars have improved over the last 10 years. Hell, the last 5 years! After all, I see LOTS of BMWs VWs Benzs and Volvos on a daily basis. How many CTSs, Sevilles, Devilles etc. do you see in Italy? In Europe as a whole for that matter?

Thanks for the warning.

[gonenuts15792]

justacruiser, what do you prefer, imports or domestics.

[gonenuts15792]

Originally Posted by J_Swigz

I swear, if this even turns into another "import vs. domestic" thread...

LOL disregard my last post.

[justacruiser]

Originally Posted by gonenuts15792

justacruiser, what do you prefer, imports or domestics.

WARNING: FOR ANY DUMBASSES OUT THERE WHO MIGHT THINK OTHERWISE AND OPEN THEIR MOUTHS TO REMIND PEOPLE OF IT, THIS IS OPINION, NOT FACT, (WELL, MOST OF IT).

To tell you the truth that depends on which category of car I'm looking at I suppose. For older classic cars, it's domestics all the way. Much easier to work on, a much better buying market and much cheaper to restore, (not to mention much better looking). They also recieve more attention unless it's some extra special import like an XKE or old Ferrari. Keep in mind this is here in America, I'd imagine it's pretty hard/expensive to restore an older American car over in Europe and damn near impossible in Japan.

As for newer cars, I mainly base it on:


A. The gut reaction the car gives me when I first see it. I look at a Benz, Audi, BMW or a Volvo and think, 'thats a pretty nice car, but I'd never spend the money on one, they're kind of... dull.' They've just never excited me. No model of any of them ever has. The TT was kind of cool I guess, but I just never got excited over it's styling. I was the same way about Caddy until all their new models started coming out. For the first time in a LONG time I saw a new luxury car that I'd buy in a heartbeat if I had the money and I never get tired of looking at them, they're beautiful and they happen to be Caddies.

B. The cars reliability, because it doesn't matter how pimp your ride is if it's in the shop for half the time you own it. Caddy definitly looks like it's built with much higher quality now and my opinion of the German luxury brands are and always have been pretty bad in this department. Caddy used to be pure shit, much worse than the German cars, so if I had the money I wouldn't have purchased any of the luxury cars available a few years ago, except maybe a Mark 8. Now it'd be a Caddy and nothing but a Caddy. Especially a CTS, preferably the V series.

C.The price, which Caddy certainly gives a bargain with. Pure luxury and great looks, for the best price you can get, anywhere. Now thats what I like.

For imports, my main hesitation about buying one is that there aren't many categories of vehicles here in America where you can't find a domestic vehicle to serve your needs reliably. For a small gas sipping car, you could get a Saturn ION or a Ford focus, for a midsize you could get a Saturn L series or a Malibu, (as much as I dislike the Malibu image), for a fullsize you could go with a Mercury Grand Marquis or Crown Victoria. For mid and fullsize luxury look no further than Caddy, Buick or Lincoln. For a sports car on the cheap side, the Mustang, on the more expensive side, the Vette, on the supercar side, the Saleen S7 or the Ford GT, or even if you want to be a little blasphemous, a 427TT LPE Vette. I just don't have much enthusiasm for imports, I never have and probably never will, they just don't excite me. Thats just the way I am, some people are die hard import fans, swear by them and talk about them, but I don't. There are very few import cars that catch my eye and most of them are exotics, like Lambos or Ferraris.

An import I would buy for certain? A Mazda B-series truck, if I were in the market for a small truck. Why? Because I LOATHE Tacomas, can't stand the new Plastic Fantastic Nissans and the Ford Ranger is a more expensive B-series truck, so I'd just buy a Mazda and get the same for cheaper. This is the only category I can think of off hand where domestics still fall short.

[Jimster]

Originally Posted by gonenuts15792

I remember a few posts back that I kindly suggested to you the same exact thing. It wasn't put exactly that way but I thought that you would get the point, but no you have to trail on about how good imports are and how shitty General Motors compares.

At least your reading comprehension isn't down the shitter......... You are basically hearing the unbiased opinions and experiences of someone who has been competitvely driving for about 10 years now and has worked in the motor industry before.

If you can't handle the fact that I think GM are rubbish, then stay the fuck out of this thread.

I have driven many American cars- Mustangs (Almost every damned version thinkable), Corvettes, Chryslers (PRobably every one from the last 5 years), Cadillac CTS (I considered buying one) and Seville STS. There is also a Mercury Marauder, Ford Crown Vic Police cruiser, Chevy Tahoe and SIlverado etc........Basically plenty of them, most of them were even in the United States.
And none of those that I have driven are as good as an Accord, 3 series or 406 Peugeot.

Look, I'm not even sure what you guys are criticising when you are stabbing at the quality of Bimmers and Mercs. The JD Power US surveys are Rubbish. FACT: In the 1999 JD Power Survey the Volkswagen Jetta got marked down because the cup holder wasn't big enough You call that a reliable survey???? Or the fact that all it takes is one out of place warning light and average-Joe-USA ends up bitching about the fucking thing and tells all his friends it's rubbish.

justacruiser your last post is a well balanced opinion, but you'd honestly take a Ion over a Civic, a Live rear axle over double wishbone suspension??? Or a Grand Marquis over a Maxima A Ladder frame over a proper chassis??? Your choice, but a little IMHO.

By the way gonenuts, I saw your little snipe and your childish PM, anymore of that crap and you're gone. Sheeit, you're lucky I'm such a fair moderator.

[gonenuts15792]

Jimster: every person has an opinion. From now on lets respect each others opinion and stop playing childish games.

[Jimster]

Fair enough.


Thread closed