88 Civic LX- Won't Start, not the starter, please HELP!

[Ebranste]

Let me just first say I havent had to take this car to a mechanic in 5 years and I'm not starting now.

My Civic won't start and I can't figure out why. I got a newer '97 Civic a couple years ago and decided to keep this one as a backup and drove it around alot at first doing deliveries, but I've been letting it sit for about 6 months now. It did have a locked starter which is why I stopped driving it initially as the starter would only work in warm weather, but I replaced it and now the starter works regardless of temperature, but the engine will not catch, it just turns and turns.

Just for kicks, I tried to push start it about 10 times, and that didn't work. I've just recharged the battery, and the read 12.6 volts on my voltmeter which is about what it should be. The starter spins normal speed not slow as well.

I am asking all my fellow Civic enthusiasts to help me out with suggestions. I've disconnected the "out" line on the fuel filter and fuel is present which means the filter is not clogged. The fuel pump is also working as I do get the 'pffft' pressure release sound when I remove the gas cap, so that leaves me with only a few ideas left.

I'm thinking a bad ignition coil may be the cause or even perhaps clogged fuel injectors, but these are 2 things I don't have experience checking for. The fuel injectors are below the intake manifold which makes me leary of going down there without knowing what to look for and fear of damaging my injectors is also on my mind.

If the ignition coil is bad, I'm making an educated guess that there won't be any spark at the plugs, but besides leaving the plugs propped up and attempting to start the engine in a pitch black garage(which I've done too) to see if the plugs are getteing spark, I don't know a better way to check.

I've also checked the distrbuter, rotor, and wires. Just for kicks, I also replaced the distributor, wires, and rotor and still had the same issue.

I've got the Helm manual for my car as well, but I don't have the test harness($167) and want to avoid buying it at all costs. I know there are other ways to test the FI and ignition systems without it, but I lack the experience.

I've cleared the ECU codes and thought if I tried to start it, I would get an error code, but there are no new codes, so I'm outta ideas without buying and replacing stuff at random which is expensive and time consuming to say the least. If someone out there with experience could help walk me through troubleshooting the ignition system, I would forever be in debt.

Also, forgot to add. I'm sure the ECU is fine. It flashes once when the key hits the accessory position and once again at the 'on' position. I believe my ECU not the cause because it seems to be initializing OK.

My ICQ is 31843835. Please drop me a line. I'll be up and around tomorrow 10-5 eastern time. Please ICQ me or just drop a reply in this thread. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks guys for reading my long post.

[RedRacerCivic]

You need a new IGNITOR, cost=100 at Honda dealership. Thats all you'll need.

[89ssgti]

With the distributor cap removed,start the engine,if the rotor doesn't spin.The timing belt is broke.
If it spins,check for sparks.To check the spark,remove one spark plug wire and put an old plug inside.Now with isolated pliers,hold the spark plug on a metal part of the engine(to ground it)
the spark should be blue.
If you have spark,check the gas delivery,to do so,just unscrew the gas line coming out of the fuel filter and going to the fuel rail,put it in a bottle or something(to avoid spillage) and put the key on.

[Ebranste]

I'm gonna check the spark and fuel like you said. Thanks. The ignitor sounds like a definite possibility too. I've heard the term used but i'm not sure if its the same part as the ignition coil. Can someone clear that up. I'm looking tin the helm manual now but so far no mention of an 'ignitor'.

I'm getting hopeful.

....and 'DOH!' I forgot the plugs ground to the block. How forgetful of me.

[Ebranste]

89ssgti, I did those test like you suggested. I am getting spark at the plugs and I'm getting fuel delivery as well. A pint(exaggerating) of fuel leaked out when I put the key to the 'on' position.

Just a note. I found a diagram which indicated the position of the 'igniter unit' in Helm's, but the diagram wasn't in enough detail for me to discern its locatotion on the distributor, and the testing for it relies on the use of the elusive and expensive test harness...go figure.


Since I am getting spark, does this rule out the igniter as a possibility.


Thanks to those who have posted replies. I am very appreciative of the help.

I'm also getting very sleepy. Please keep the suggestions coming. I'll peek back in the am hours.

[SiRedge]

Have you checked your cambelt? If that's broken nothing will work, and when you try to turn it over, it will sound noticeably different from the normal 'engine trying to turn over' sound...

[88LXi/87CRXSi]

Ebranste,
I was reading ur post, you seem to have fuel, but it "leaked out". Should be, I'm guessing, at least 30psi on an FI engine. Maybe check your fuel filter. You've got spark, Ignitors OK, I guess.But a buddy of mine's '89 Crx belt "slipped a little", mech.'s words. It would crank, spark, fuel, but no fire-start. What I was really thinking was,6 months sitting, could a critter decided to make a home in your intake/filterbox?? Gas, spark, AIR?? Anyways, good luck!

[89ssgti]

Originally posted by Ebranste

Since I am getting spark, does this rule out the igniter as a possibility.

yes

[Ebranste]

Well, to update the situation, I've checked the timing belt, air intake and throttle cable as has been suggested to me. The belt is taught and there's no way it could have slipped, the intake is clear of obstruction, and the throttle cable is taught as well. So now I'm really out of ideas.

If anyone can make any more suggestions, I'd appreciate it. I'm out to the store to get a spark plug tester cause they're cheap and I don't have one in my tool box yet. I've checked for spark visually, and its there, but I'm going to be a little more thorough about it.

I know motorcycles don't do well on 'old' gas, but I don;t think that rule applies to cars. It was sitting for 6 months on a nearly empty tank and I added 1 gallon of fresh gas. Could 'old' gas be causing the problem. If so, how do I go about cleaning the fuel system of it?

[Ebranste]

Okay, ive' done alot more troubleshooting and I'm pretty certain the problem is in the fuel system, but I'm, not 100% certain and I need someone to doublecheck my idea.

OK, so I'm 100% sure the problem isn't spark. I was getting low resistance readings from my ignition coil, so I used my dremel to clean all the rust and corrsion off of the secondary terminal. Then I did the same with the connections in the distributor cap and on the rotor too.

Now, I get a bigger spark on all 4 plugs that I was before, but the engine still would not start, so I consulted Helm's and moved on to air. I tested the tandem control valve and dismantled the air cleaner assembly completely, also removing the piece that attches to the top of the throttle body. Everything is clear and the tandem soenoid checks out ok.

Also, I checked into the main wiring harness. All the systems it describes do what they are supposed to do when I turn the key to ON so it seems it is working fine and the ECU is passing the self diagnostic , so I know it isnt that, so I move on to fuel.

I disconnected the fuel 'out' line from the throttle body to the right of the primary and aux fuel injectors, put the key to on, and sure enough, alot of puel got pumped out. So fuel is definately making it into the throttle body and up to the fuel injectors. I did continuity checks on the injectors themselves and that comes out within spec on both the primary and aux injector.

Here's the part where I'm confused. I opened the air and throttle valves in the throttle body and locked them open so I could see the tips of both fuel injectors. I noted there was a small amount of fuel in the bottom of the throttle body, but I'm not certain if its fresh or not.

According to helm's, the red wire and the yellow wire on the main and aux fuel injectors, respectively shoud be at about 10V when the key is in the off position. I read about 9.3 on each of them. Helm's also says when the yellow/white wires on each injector see about 10V, they are supposed to spray fuel into the throttle body. I'm assuming this is both with the engine engaged or when I turn the key to the 'on' position. I don't see them spray any fuel though and I have a clear view of both nozzles. I did confirm the yellow/white wires do get 9.3V as well when I turn the key to 'on'

Can anyone confirm that they should spray some fuel when the key is turned to 'on'?

[oldwagon]

do not know if you are still having this propble but here goes...I own 89 honda crx and went through every thing as you did and remembered something years ago that sometimes happen to engines...gasoline may wash pistons clean so there is no pressure when you crank the engine. I let it set for a week with thecarb open (in a safe dry place and covered of course) to evaporate gas , might try smelling dipstick to see if there is gas in the oil, that is what i did and it finally started it. changing oil helps too


now I have a problem with my crx. driving at night sometime the headlights surge when they are on bright.

[OmenQ]

Did you ever get this problem sorted? What was the final solution? I'm having the same problem intermittently and would like to know what else you did.... Thanks.

[Ebranste]

Originally Posted by OmenQ

Did you ever get this problem sorted? What was the final solution? I'm having the same problem intermittently and would like to know what else you did.... Thanks.

Yup....I solved it. It was a set of clogged fuel injectors. I had a replacement throttle body including fuel injectors pulled at a junkyard and installed it. I replaced the throttle body because it also had a bad sensor, and fuel injectors, i understand are somewhat matched to a throttle body. Just replacing them with new ones or putting used ones in a diff throttle body could give unreliable performance.

Anyways, I did the work, the car runs beatifully once more. Too bad it's for sale now..........I'll miss it.