b16A3 or b18b1? Turbo or NA???????

[Thepeug]

Alright, I know this question has been asked a million times, but bear with me. I wanted a 3rd gen Integra RS/LS for a long time, but they're a bit out of my price range (I'm a high school student). I've been looking at 5th gen civc hatchbacks. They're only 2100 pounds. I know the stock engine is weak, but a swap could turn it into a decent pocket rocket.
So....b16A3 or b18b1? The b16 is lacks displacement (1.6), but it has 160hp, which is a nice jump from the 100hp of a dx or cx. The b16 head allows for a lot of airflow and is a sought-after choice for hybrids, and the near-perfect rod/stroke ratio (1.74) allows the engine to rev insanely high. The problem is the lack of low-end power. 111 lbs of torque @ 7000 rpm? For those of you who have b16's, does the lack of low-end cause a problem? You practically won't get any power until 4th or 5th gear. What can I do to get more low-end power? How much would a complete swap cost?
b18b1: 142 hp and 127 lb @ 5200 rpm. It also has more displacement (1.8). So I lose 18 hp but gain 16 lbs of torque. Is that a smart trade-off? Also, I lose the b16 head, and these engines have a crappy R/S ratio of 1.54, which I've been told "considerably reduces the maximum power output." What exactly does that mean? How much would a complete swap cost?
I don't know whether I want to keep the engine NA or go turbo. Which one is better for turbo? I've heard the longer gear ratios on the b18 help spool the turbo, but what are some other pros and cons of each? If I decided to keep it NA, which engine is better? Also, for the most hp, would it be cheaper to build an NA engine or go with the turbo?
OK, just two more questions! 1. How much money could I get for a 1991 Buick Park Avenue with 115k miles that's in good shape? (I have to sell it to get the money for the civic). 2. If you had $3500 bucks, what car and what engine would you get? Any completely new ideas are welcome.
Sorry this was so long. Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. Answer as many or as few questions as you want. ANY help is appreciated!

[B16EJ1]

You have way too many questions that the simple reading of this forum will help answer so I'll give you simple basic answers.

1st off, I would'nt use the B16A3 but a JDM 2nd gen B16 for comparison for the simple fact that they're rare and a JDM one would be the same price and easier to find.

2nd, the B18B1 could be good for both NA(if built right) or Turbo. The B16A could be turbo'd also if built right but and LS would be better for turbo for the reasons you already listed i.e. longer gear ratios, low compression, etc.

Which swap is cheaper? The B18B1 is much cheaper for the simple fact that the B16A outperforms it with it's higher reving capability and peak hp. Stock for stock or mildy modded the B16A will come out the victor.

and finally, the pro's and con's. The B16A is a high reving, great flowing engine with endless tuning capability but, as you already stated, displacement and rod to stroke ratio leave it basically torqueless. This can be remedied so don't throw that idea out the window.

The B18B1 reaches it's greater peak torque lower in the RPM band than even the B18C for the same reason the B16A has none which is most definitly a pro but without VTEC it's is still left in the dust. Boost capabilities on this engine are endless as NA is on the B16A. If you want boost, this is the one for you.

It's a little early so that's all I have the patience for. It's someone elses turn now. Goodluck.

[Kilboy57]

You can appraise your car at edmunds.com ....get the price with all its options and mileage... also Kelly blue books is a good source of car values.

Edmunds: Private party $1,648
Trade-in $1,271

Kelly's: Private party $2,735
Trade-in $1,650

I'm not sure why there is a difference in prices...I priced ur 91 buick as a base model not the Ultima (or whatever the trim is) and I didnt add any opitons. Try it on your own to get a more accurate price...I used my zip code for NY I'm sure NC has different prices...Good Luck

[B16EJ1]

Originally posted by Kilboy57
You can appraise your car at edmunds.com ....get the price with all its options and mileage... also Kelly blue books is a good source of car values.

Edmunds: Private party $1,648
Trade-in $1,271

Kelly's: Private party $2,735
Trade-in $1,650

I'm not sure why there is a difference in prices...I priced ur 91 buick as a base model not the Ultima (or whatever the trim is) and I didnt add any opitons. Try it on your own to get a more accurate price...I used my zip code for NY I'm sure NC has different prices...Good Luck

[Thepeug]

FIrst off, thanks B16EJ1 for the info. I'll probably end up going with the b18 just becuase it's cheaper, but I don't know. And thanks Kilboy. I don't know why it's different on edmunds. I added a few options that brought it up to $2000, but that's still lower than I thought it would be .

[Thepeug]

Also, sorry about the multiple posts. After talking to a few people, I realized it's something to be avoided. Lesson learned.

[zacharyaus]

sorry to have to be a bother but B16EJ1, you mentioned something about adding more torque to a b16a3 or an advantage or something

i was thinking of getting a b16a3 for the 94 civic (non hatch) that i'm getting. it seems like there are alot of advantages of the b16a3 except that it lacks torque. i don't plan on torbo'ing it but i will definetely be doing alot of work on the engine.

like i said, the torque looks like it is the only con, do you know what i can do about that?

thanks,
zack

[eckoman_pdx]

If you want to Boost the motor, I would go with the LS. Yes, you CAN boost a B16A. But the LS is better for boosting. The LS block can handle 12 PSI on stock internals (the b16a can only handle about 8psi on stock internals), and the LS has a better tranny for the turbo for reasons you already stated. The longer gearing helps the turbo spool better. The LS/Vtec canbe a potent N/A motor, though I don't go recommending this often becuase a bad build, well bad. Lots of people who don't build them correct build them, and it results in a non-reliable motor. I proper built LS/Vtec can really move. I know of a guy in san deigo with a 500 HP boosted LS/Vtec, he did all the work himself (engineering degree and he has his own machone shop). This can give you the best of both worlds, Vtec, and the LS benifits. But don't go over-reving the LS/Vtec much past 7000 unless you did some bottom end work, new pistond and rods, etc, because the stock LS bottem end isn't ment to be reved past the roughly 7000 rpm redline. A B16A can be a good motor too, but makes a very good N/A motor. Especially if you tend to shy away from frankinstein motors (like the ls/vtec). If want to turbo the motor, go LS, its the best Honda motor to turbo. If you want to go N/A, then get the B16A.