Aye... interesting topic..

[INdEcEnT]

I've noticed alot of ranting and raving over swaps.. and much dissing going around over a D16Y7.. Or even a D16Y8...
Lets think about something, shall we...
Ok.. A Honda Civic.. a sport compact car... Or in the case of an LX a mid-size sedan... or of course the Hatchback (which is not to be considered in this debate.) All cars with little, yet, ample power.. Even the Vtec or Si.. Compared to alot of other imports.. A civic just doesnt hold its weight... Now.. dont get me wrong.. Slap a happy H22A or something in there.. and it becomes a monster with retarded power:weight ratios.. But.. What is the point of swapping a civic engine with a civic engine... Your still limited in races you'll win... I could list cars.. but I feel thats inappropriate.. I will say this though... A VW Passat has something like 247 stock hp.. :\
So my question is this.. Why? If you're going to do an engine swap.. which costs large amounts of time and money... why would you swap to virtually the same engine?

[jcrx]

Where's the interesting?

[mattyoung33]

Well usually an H22a swap cost a lot more thne other engine swaps, thats one reason. It also takes a lot more time to swap in because it weighs a TON more then other engines. A little civic is not meant to have a huge prelude engine in it. So you have to do other things to make up for that difference in engine weight. Plus you have to get motor mounts unlike some other engines the simply drop right in. I asked about the H22a swap to the guy whos doing my swap and he said he reccomends that I do not even look at that possibility. Said reliablility and all the hassle it takes to swap that in is ridiculous.

So you think you wouldnt be impressed going from that weedwacker engine of yours to a JDM B16(170HP). Or a JDM GSR(180HP). Or a civic type-r(185HP). Or a integra type-r(195)? then you can add I/H/E plus other mods like camshafts, pulley kits, etc. If that isnt good enough for you you are messed up in the head. plus the possibilty of adding forced-induction in the future. I plan on adding a turbo or supercharger after I do other fun stuff to my car.

Horsepower isnt everything my friend. That passat weighs A LOT more then our civics. You have to consider the horsepower to weight ratio. Dont get me wrong they arent slow. BUT its a volkswagen

[mattyoung33]

and those are not virtually the same engine! 106Hp or whatever ur LX has to 195 is not the SAME ENGINE IN ANY WAY

[jcrx]

H22 doesn't weight that much more than a B series, about 85lbs, imagine strapping a mid size child to your hood. And it isn't a pain to install, the worst part is running the cable shifter, other than that, with the mount kit, it is a normal swap.

[zackiedawg]

OH, and BTW, a stock Passat engine puts out the following:

1.8turbo engine: 180HP, 170Lbs

2.8L V6: 190HP, 195Lbs

4.0L W8: 275HP, 275Lbs

None of the Passat engines makes 240HP...only one makes MORE than 200HP, but you have to pay much bigger money to get it.

Consider also the weight issue as mentioned before (Passats are significantly heavier than Civics).

A Passat and a Civic are two totally different classes of vehicle on two different missions...not a good comparison to use.

In a lightweight compact car like a Civic, an upgrade of 20HP and 15-20Lbs of torque will be NOTICEABLE. So asking if it is worth swapping engines to get 180 or 195HP from one of the more powerful Type R or Acura engines...it depends on cost. But the HP increase will be significant, and you will certainly notice it.

Weight, size, gearing, AND power all have to be taken into consideration when computing acceleration and feel. A Passat is rarely a car chosen to build into a race car - it is designed to transport multiple people in relative comfort for long distances and achieve very high rates of top speed...NOT to accelerate hard out of the gate and blast the 1/4. A Civic is a car designed to give reasonable space and comfort in a reliable commutable car with great gas mileage...but due to its lighter weight, it is mor eadaptable as a street racer or a 1/4 mile car. It will never be a car suited to Passat-style top speed cruising and business-class comfort; that's not what it was designed for.

Hope that helps!

[INdEcEnT]

Aye. I'll go on record saying.. The honda civic is my car.. and I'll stand behind it 100%...
Im talking in the sense of racing... Im not talking about a 15-20 hp increase... Compared to a 3000GT VR-4, Eclipse GSX or GST, Imprezza WRX, and many others... The Honda Civic sits slightly low in that scheme.. Of course.. Im all about the Wolf in Sheeps clothing.. and I love to see a Civic whoop a 3000GT's ass... But.. Im saying it takes alot.. and why wouldnt you go for the higher engine such as the B18C or B18C5... or even H22A (which is obviously a TON more than a B series.)
Ya know?

[INdEcEnT]

OH, and BTW zackiedawg...
Thanx for the info man.. I hadnt checked out the specs on the Passat.. But I heard it was pretty nice.. Is that your car?

[SilverY2KCivic]

Some people have faith in the underdog, hence why people take time to build up ALL MOTOR D-series engines. When built right, they can put down 215 at the WHEELS (keep in mind you gotta stroke the engine to 1900cc's at the least to do this) and they can pull 13's all day long, maybe even whoop on a Cobra if faced to a not so best driver.

H22 swaps aren't ideal because of weight for one (unless you are purely drag racing it) and also to fit an H22 into a Civic, you gotta remove A/C, power steering and some other stuff not to mention RE-WELD to engine mounts to a different place on the frame of the car just to fit the motor. It's tedious and costly swap, but of course it can be done. B16 is more common because, well it's a Civic engine for one. B18 while it fits the same as a B16, it's still an Integra motor. Nice to have, but not as many people go with them for some reason. Hybrids are quite popular too, LS/VTECs and CRVTECs lead that pack. An LS block with a GSR head, or a B20 (CR-V) block with a B16 VTEC head. In the D-series arena. there's always a mini-me swap which is a D16Y7 or A6/(A1?) block fitted with a Y8 SOHC VTEC head from off a 6th gen EX Civic. I know guy that's on his 3rd D16A6 motor. He's true to the D-series. Wouldn't quite tell me why either.

[INdEcEnT]

Thats what I have a Y7 engine with a Y8 head... I'd like to swap.. because.. Ive found that no matter what I do to my car.. I can set it up perefectly.. I've replaced the stock rods and cranks and heads to Aluminum... Althought keeping the Vtec cam, and I've ported almost everything portable, and advanced timing 8 degrees, and all kinds of shit.. and I still dont get the performance I want to see in my car... So.. The question is this... What is an ideal swap to allow peasing performance... but one that is also a logical application for everyday driving?
Silver.. Im pretty sure you can help me out here...

[zackiedawg]

Originally posted by INdEcEnT
OH, and BTW zackiedawg...
Thanx for the info man.. I hadnt checked out the specs on the Passat.. But I heard it was pretty nice.. Is that your car?

Yes...that's one of my current rides...my 'business' car which I also use for sport and fun. It's a W8 (275HP, 275Lbs), AWD. It is a wagon...so I can cart around my mountain bike and crap, and take trips to the snowy regions. I had to get something nice and roomy to bring clients around in - the Passat is very nice and luxurious for the money.

It moves very well for the weight of it, but it isn't a racer. I'll drive it hard off the line and take advantage of the AWD traction, and it'll do 0-60 in the 6.8 second range, with roughly a 15 sec 1/4 mile. Not many mods available for the W8 engine.

I also have an Acura MDX on lease for the 'family trip' car. I had a Honda Prelude which was totalled in a wreck...I am now looking for a project car to build up as a weekend fun/racer...I am looking preferably for a 1985-1989 Honda Civic Hatchback. I like the older bodystyle, and would love to drop in a new engine to make a nice little sleeper that'd be fun to drive yet reliable.

[SilverY2KCivic]

Originally posted by INdEcEnT
Thats what I have a Y7 engine with a Y8 head... I'd like to swap.. because.. Ive found that no matter what I do to my car.. I can set it up perefectly.. I've replaced the stock rods and cranks and heads to Aluminum... Althought keeping the Vtec cam, and I've ported almost everything portable, and advanced timing 8 degrees, and all kinds of shit.. and I still dont get the performance I want to see in my car... So.. The question is this... What is an ideal swap to allow peasing performance... but one that is also a logical application for everyday driving?
Silver.. Im pretty sure you can help me out here...

Hands down, B16 built up decently, or left stock but adding on a Vortec Supercharger.

[B16EJ1]

There are many reasons why people swap and for every person it's different. To race is not the only reason people swap. The reason I swapped a B16 was because I wanted to get my car where I think it should've been off the USDM showroom floor. If I had gotten a hatch I would've gone B18C spec R and yes, the track would be the reason.