Passlock System

[N.J.C.]

This is an update on my 98 ZR2. As stated before, I was going to install a remote starter...both to have the conveniences as well as hopes to eliminate the PASSLOCK problems I have encountered.

After doing much research and learning how the system works and it's components, I relayed all my info about the system and my problems to my installer. We had a long discussion about it and he told me that he doesn't use a bypass in conjunction w/ the remote starter...instead he goes a big step further and programs the main computer to work flawlessly w/ the remote start system. He said the system can send slightly different resistance values which can still trip the BMC...something to think about for those who plan on using simple resistors to "trick" the BMC.

I didn't know such a path could be taken when installing remote start systems. Yet another thing I recently learned. With no bypass installed and the computer programmed to work with the remote start, the problems w/ the PASSLOCK are history. Surprisingly enough, the computer now sees the signal from the remote start as legitimate and allows the ignition to work as normal. Regardless of any past problems, the computer recognized the remote start as a correct signal and tells the PASSLOCK that all systems are a go. Not only does the remote start work nicely with the factory computer, the reprogram process still allows my factory alarm and lock out feature to still work if a theft does occur. I even have full function of all factory electric locks and lights that blink when the remote signal is received. He even wired in a kill switch for the remote start system should it ever need completely shut down and bypassed for any reason...which was mounted in the fuse panel on the driver side.

Oddly enough, he told me that if I start the truck manually w/ the key, the security light will still come on. He was right. If I start the truck remotely, the light never comes on...even after I install the key and turn it to the on position w/ the truck already running. But the light comes on and stays on when started manually. Either way, since the installation of the remote start system and reprogram of the factory computer, I no longer have lock out issues which results in the ever so frustrating "no start" situation...even if started manually. Good piece of mind!

Now, here's the interesting part. All of this work, besides the remote start module mounted in the dash, was all done through the OBDII port under the dash. What I mean, all of this programming for the remote start system was done w/ a tool that simply plugged into the same port you would check DTC's (diagnostic trouble codes) located under the dash on the driver side. Has anyone else ever seen such a thing? Anyone ever heard of a remote start system programmed this way? I've installed a remote start before on another S series truck and never come across such an option. Pretty darn cool if you ask me!

So, for all of you who are thinking of going w/ a remote start system, check around and find an installer who does it this way. My installer says most use a bypass module that "tricks" the PASSLOCK, but he prefers to do a reprogram of the main computer. Now, this guy is no ordinary installer. He's a retired electrical engineer who happens to have a long background w/ GM vehicles....not to mention over 2500 installs under his belt. This guy gets called in to do installs with stubborn vehicles w/ ignition problems just as those we are discussing. Guess I found the right guy for the job! The installation w/ parts and labor only cost me $200 bones. Everyone else in the entire KC area wanted a min. $250 and used a common bypass module, which also disables the factory alarm...in which an after market alarm would have to be installed to retain a theft deterrent.

As stated before by Mr. Landshark....a vehicle brought in for a remote starter installation w/ the infamous PASSLOCK problems would cost the customer much, much more but in reality, doesn't if you find a highly qualified installer who really knows how the system works and is willing to solve the problem by using the right equipment to reprogram the computer.

[ponchonutty]

I have never seen a remote start done this way. I mean I can do this on a 2008 GM vehicle but not an old one like yours. I don't understand how the truck can differentiate between the remote starter or the ignition key other than not using the "key in ignition" switch. If you can bypass the system for the remote start then why not with the ignition key too??? Sounds fishy to me.

I have many programmers in my shop too from a GM Tech2 with the Candi module to a $8,000 SNAP ON unit. What kind of "scanner" did he use? I have spent a lot of time inside a few GM computers but never found an area where it says to ignore the Passlock reading when remote starting or anything close. I've been in this bizz for 15 years and have heard people talking about doing a remote start simular to this but no one ever coughs up ways to do it. I sure would like to hear from your installer. Please send me a PM with his contact information. Telling us that you had this done with out sharing the actual ways of doing it are pointless.

[N.J.C.]

Originally Posted by ponchonutty

I have never seen a remote start done this way. I mean I can do this on a 2008 GM vehicle but not an old one like yours. I don't understand how the truck can differentiate between the remote starter or the ignition key other than not using the "key in ignition" switch. If you can bypass the system for the remote start then why not with the ignition key too??? Sounds fishy to me.

I have many programmers in my shop too from a GM Tech2 with the Candi module to a $8,000 SNAP ON unit. What kind of "scanner" did he use? I have spent a lot of time inside a few GM computers but never found an area where it says to ignore the Passlock reading when remote starting or anything close. I've been in this bizz for 15 years and have heard people talking about doing a remote start simular to this but no one ever coughs up ways to do it. I sure would like to hear from your installer. Please send me a PM with his contact information. Telling us that you had this done with out sharing the actual ways of doing it are pointless.

Alright Ponch. First you insult my intellegence a little and I got over that, but now you question my results and methods to get there? You're really starting to pi$$ me off. It's as if it's impossible for someone else to know more than you. You've got a lot to learn man.

If you're so dead set on the fact that it's so impossible and that my installer and I must be full of sh!t, then you call the shop and talk with the owner. If he wants to give out the installers personal number, then that's his business. I can't do that. But he will tell you that he doesn't use a generic bypass module. I'm not out to hide anything...especially hide address and contact info. Call them yourself and ask about installation methods. I'll tell you right now, the owner is going to tell you that he brings in a guy from a couple doors down to do the installs. He's an older guy who only comes in the shop for remote starts and trouble shooting, etc.

So here's the info. Call them...please. Just so you can find out you're not the only "know-it-all" on the planet.

Pittsburg Auto Glass
920 W. 4th St.
Pittsburg, KS 66762
620-235-1111

Owner - Brian
Remote Installer - Tom

[jerlinux]

Originally Posted by ponchonutty

Yes, in theory you could get it to work but then again you'd be paying 1000% more for that bypass instead of just getting resistors.

If you have a Sams club membership, the 791 is less than 15 dollars delivered to your home. And you do not have to measure any resistance values nor do you have to cut any wires.

The 791 has to be connected to the yellow and black but it does not break these wires. So you can run the car as GM intended and only use the bypass when necessary.

I might just buy another 791 and give this a try.

[ponchonutty]

Cool thanks. I plan to call them first thing in the morning. This just has be too pumped to hear exactly what they did. I'm not in it to try to make money on this, just trying to see if I can offer multiple ways for customers to rid of these crappy GM security issues!!!

Yeah sorry with my snotty replies. It's just now I'm getting into remote start season and by the time I get on here I'm wipped. Just like today I had to get 8 brand new Fords done with remote starters for a sale they want to have for the weekend. My hands are so tired I can barely type! Agian though I can't wait to give them a call. I hope they'll be free giving in the information. Many places don't like to give away secrets

Originally Posted by N.J.C.

Alright Ponch. First you insult my intellegence a little and I got over that, but now you question my results and methods to get there? You're really starting to pi$$ me off. It's as if it's impossible for someone else to know more than you. You've got a lot to learn man.

If you're so dead set on the fact that it's so impossible and that my installer and I must be full of sh!t, then you call the shop and talk with the owner. If he wants to give out the installers personal number, then that's his business. I can't do that. But he will tell you that he doesn't use a generic bypass module. I'm not out to hide anything...especially hide address and contact info. Call them yourself and ask about installation methods. I'll tell you right now, the owner is going to tell you that he brings in a guy from a couple doors down to do the installs. He's an older guy who only comes in the shop for remote starts and trouble shooting, etc.

So here's the info. Call them...please. Just so you can find out you're not the only "know-it-all" on the planet.

Pittsburg Auto Glass
920 W. 4th St.
Pittsburg, KS 66762
620-235-1111

Owner - Brian
Remote Installer - Tom

[ponchonutty]

N.J.C I guess I can continue to be snotty because I just talked to Tom this afternoon. It took me a while because he actually doesn't work where you got your remote start installed but rather is subcontracted to do the work. They gave me his cell phone number. He's a great guy really. We talked for about 20 minutes. He told me that in your truck (which he did remember you because of your theft light issue) he used the GMBP bypass from Directed Electronics Inc. which is made by Trilogex. Here's a link to it http://bypasskit.com/product.aspx?prodid=GMBP He stated that you must have misunderstood what he told you. Yes, it is hooked into the OBD2 connector but he didn't use a scanner or programmer to disable the passlock. This now makes since why it starts fine remotely but has the theft light on if you use a key. The GMBP does use computer logic to bypass the security system but it actually sends out the correct code via the data wire (pin #2 in the plug) to the BCM. If it were simply a programming thing why not correct it when starting with the key??? Why only would it be correct when starting with the remote starter???? This part is where I got lost in what you said before.

I then explained what I've been up to and what I've found out about these Passlock issues. He was actually excited to hear what I've done to bypass these faulty systems so much so he put my direct number in his contacts page. This way if he gets stumped or has an issue he has a better source of information instead of those from DEI (which is the brand or remote starters he uses).

So the end result to completely rid you of your problems with the theft light you should do the resistor trick that I've talked about. This way no matter how you start your truck (nice truck btw, I had one before and loved it) the light will not be on as you drive.

[xuberantz]

Originally Posted by ponchonutty

QUESTIONS ON PEOPLE WITH PK1 vehicles such as a '97 Cavalier. I curious of any of you that have the PK1 version and had problems AND did this bypass. Did it work? The reason I am asking is that the PK1 system has a "bulb check" setup. I had messed with one a long time ago but it didn't work plus I think the vehicle had other issues as well. I'm trying to figure out how to bypass a PK1 which I suppose a simple relay wired off of the ignition switch could work.

I've read through this entire thread trying to figure out a way to fix the Passlock 1 issue in my mothers 96 Chevrolet cavalier. I assume it's a Passlock issue at least, the car cut off and would not turn back on. I went over earlier today and tried to get it running, she said the "Theft System" light came on minutes before the car shut off. The fuel pump is whirring when the key is turned, and the car is getting fire. It doesn't even attempt to start, just turns over & over. I tried leaving the key on the on position for 10-20-30 minutes at a time, and the light never went off. It doesn't blink, it just stays completely illuminated at all times. I tried unhooking the battery, but no luck there...

If you, or anyone else could point me in a direction in which I could proceed to I would highly appreciate it!

[ponchonutty]

Well the passlock I system is different than that of say the S10 I just posted about. You could have something simple like a bulb out in the dash causing the same issue. Unfortunately you'll need to take it to a shop that has a scanner that shows the actual fault in the system. Not sure if the simple resistor trick will work. I think if could if you used a relay to trip the bulb check circuit.

[covertcelery]

Originally Posted by N.J.C.

Alright Ponch. First you insult my intellegence a little and I got over that, but now you question my results and methods to get there? You're really starting to pi$$ me off. It's as if it's impossible for someone else to know more than you. You've got a lot to learn man.

If you're so dead set on the fact that it's so impossible and that my installer and I must be full of sh!t, then you call the shop and talk with the owner. If he wants to give out the installers personal number, then that's his business. I can't do that. But he will tell you that he doesn't use a generic bypass module. I'm not out to hide anything...especially hide address and contact info. Call them yourself and ask about installation methods. I'll tell you right now, the owner is going to tell you that he brings in a guy from a couple doors down to do the installs. He's an older guy who only comes in the shop for remote starts and trouble shooting, etc.

So here's the info. Call them...please. Just so you can find out you're not the only "know-it-all" on the planet.

Pittsburg Auto Glass
920 W. 4th St.
Pittsburg, KS 66762
620-235-1111

Owner - Brian
Remote Installer - Tom

NJC, I hate to burst your bubble dude... But when I did my initial research on trying to figure how to get rid of my PK2 light, guess who's directions I followed.

Now my personal vehicle had other problems that caused the PK2 light to come on, but the bypass method IS w/o a doubt the first thing you must try before delving into anything else.

I'm not a "professional" installer or anything, but I will surely take the word of a guy that's been doing it for 15 years - I'm only going to save myself time and money by doing so. Not only that, but I've been able to do the bypass method on two of my buddies cars' and so far its worked better than good...


I'm just saying - I've done like a 2 month initial research on the problems of the PK2 light before I even started working on my vehicle - and I would have to say that the sheer majority of posts I've studied were from Poncho.

Trust me when I say this, but Poncho's is equal to a couple of hundred dollars worth of unnecessary dealer fixes that actually don't fix the problem.

[xuberantz]

Originally Posted by ponchonutty

Well the passlock I system is different than that of say the S10 I just posted about. You could have something simple like a bulb out in the dash causing the same issue. Unfortunately you'll need to take it to a shop that has a scanner that shows the actual fault in the system. Not sure if the simple resistor trick will work. I think if could if you used a relay to trip the bulb check circuit.

The bulb check circuit? I'm not sure if this even has to do with the passlock system, the car just died on my mother on her way home from work. Does the passlock system disable the fuel pump, or the injectors? The fuel pump is whirring but I'm not getting any fuel to the rail ( I already added more fuel to the tank to make sure it wasn't empty). I'm just trying to figure out if it's anything to do with the passlock before I start tearing into it. I tore out the ignition key switch and noticed that it just plugs in to the back of the cluster (the three wires off the cylinder lock) how exactly does that work? The key cylinder mechanisim with the three wires did have some black stuff around the wires, not sure if that's a problem or what.

Thanks for all your help!

[ponchonutty]

Oh OK. If the car died while driving then you've got another problem. The Passlock system wouldn't cause this issue. Did the car show any other problems prior to this happening? There may be an issue with a bad ground or bad BCM or even just simple corrosion in the pins going to the BCM.

Originally Posted by xuberantz

The bulb check circuit? I'm not sure if this even has to do with the passlock system, the car just died on my mother on her way home from work. Does the passlock system disable the fuel pump, or the injectors? The fuel pump is whirring but I'm not getting any fuel to the rail ( I already added more fuel to the tank to make sure it wasn't empty). I'm just trying to figure out if it's anything to do with the passlock before I start tearing into it. I tore out the ignition key switch and noticed that it just plugs in to the back of the cluster (the three wires off the cylinder lock) how exactly does that work? The key cylinder mechanisim with the three wires did have some black stuff around the wires, not sure if that's a problem or what.

Thanks for all your help!

[logoody]

Originally Posted by ponchonutty

Sorry but what you did wasn't the fix. Also, my way of fixing isn't "hacking" up stuff. What you did was just change the mechanical side of the switch. You needed to change out the "electrical" side of the switch which includes the decoder. When you change out the system you MUST do the relearn sequence per GM instructions. When GM first started having issues with this system while they started doing the same repair you did. At first it seemed to fix the problem but usually with in 6 months, the symptoms come back. Then they swap out the part that holds the decoder. Again, using the GM parts is only temporary while using the resistor is a done deal.

Ponch, I have been keeping up on the threads here and I have a correction. The stock GM ignition switch is of a mechanical point contact type switch. The electrical portion of the switch does not contain the hall effect sensors that operate the passlock system. The hall effect sensors are contained in the tumbler assembly with the key. When the tumbler is removed with the key from the ignition switch, the sensors go with it. I had to replace my ignition switch since the electrical switch contacts were fouled, I disassembled the switch to inspect the contacts, they were burned and pitted. Even though the switch operates with a rotary motion there is no wiping action on the switch so the contacts are never cleaned. I can provide pictures of the switch internals if necessary. It is possible to burnish the contacts and restore the original switch provided they have not been burned and retempered (softened). This requires very little in tools but does require a very fine diamond file or crocus cloth to dress the contacts. I installed a new switch so I have the older one available. I did install a resistor on the passlock circuit to alleviate any issues with that. I posted previously on my extensive investigation on the the system see page 15 for the full write up.

logoody

I am a journyman electronics technician.

[ponchonutty]

Yes I knew that the Passlock system is inside the keyswitch and not in the mechanical side. That's why tons of people think it's just the switch so they unplug the old and put in the new the wonder why they still have the problem. Now, sometimes doing that swap seems to temporarly fix the problem. Also, if the contacts are really worn like you were talking about it could cause the PK2 to trigger. Again, so far the only way I've found it to work the best is to do the resistor install.

[slls]

Doesn't that go along with the poster that said the main problem was corrosion on the pins, do a better job of cleaning them and the problem won't come back.

[ponchonutty]

Originally Posted by slls

Doesn't that go along with the poster that said the main problem was corrosion on the pins, do a better job of cleaning them and the problem won't come back.

It doesn't matter because eventually it will happen again.