Why use nos?

[n1zmo]

OK
My understanding of how NOS increases a cars power is because, basically, the nos allows more oxygen to be available in combustion. My question is, why use nos which is only part oxygen when you can just use 100% pure oxygen?

[bjdm151]

Because that would be very hard to control.

Cylender goes one way, connecting rods go the other.

[Schister66]

I'm not going to say anything more than this, if you put NOS in a post, people are going to slaughter your post and tell you that it is nitrous, not NOS....NOS is a company.

Anyway, nitrous is used in the car to boost horsepower by adding more oxygen in the combustion. It also cools the intake air.

Chemistry class now in session

When a fuel burns, each molecule needs an equal amount of opposite molecules to attach to. In this way, if you burn a hydrocarbon fuel like gasoline with air, most if not all of the hydrocarbon chains (gasoline) will break down and pair up w/ an oxygen or nitrogen molecule.(Nitrogen is more common in air than oxygen).

Heres the part you need to understand.

Correct me if i'm wrong here chem guys!
Oxygen and hydrogen will burn the hottest and steadiest in the cylinder and that is the desired combination. In a combustion stroke w/o Nitros, some of the hydrogen molecules will escape unburned because the oxygen paired w/ a carbon molecule. This forms carbon dioxide. The reaction between carbon and oxygen is not very hot however. Oxygen and carbon form carbon dioxide inside every person and animal, and our body temp is only 98.6 degrees F.

The reason for adding N20 not liquid o2 is that basically the nitrogen will pair w/ the carbon forming trace amounts of a basic cyanide. This allows the hydrogen and oxygen to burn together. The two combos that i just listed are the desired ones, but actually all of the molecules just burn w/ whatever is nearby.

The reason for not using O2 is that there is a certain ratio of fuel to air too. It is called the stociometric ratio (14.5 to 1...fuel to air) All you would do w/ solid O2 is effectively lean out the engine. That is also why Nitrous wrecks engines. If too much nitrous is used, the engine will run very lean and will start to knock (pre-ignition). This blows holes in the pistons and breaks ringlands.

Corrections are welcomed if there is a mistake.

[drdisque]

pure oxygen would be very difficult to properly meter and is flammable and explosive under pressure while nitrous oxide is not.

[benchtest]

As drdisque said, safety is the reason. Pure oxygen is very dangerous. It reacts violently with anything flammable (and even things you wouldn't think should burn). As far as how it works in the engine...not to dispute the chem. lesson, but to put it in simple form...more air and fuel equals more power. The nitrous adds concentrated oxygen and either the injectors or a spray bar add the extra fuel. It's that simple. The damage usually comes when the fuel system fails to add the fuel and the mixture goes real lean, real fast.

[benchtest]

Oops, forgot the fogger systems. You can add both nitrous and fuel at the same point also.

[curtis73]

Originally Posted by Schister66

Anyway, nitrous is used in the car to boost horsepower by adding more oxygen in the combustion. It also cools the intake air.

Huge benefit that many often overlook... the cooling of the intake charge. Nitrous Oxide is kept in the bottle as a liquid. The only way it can be kept that way is under extreme pressure. As it evaporates it absorbs heat around it making things very cool. Its the same reason why aerosol cans get cold when you spray them.

Chemistry class now in session. (edit) This forms carbon dioxide. The reaction between carbon and oxygen is not very hot however. Oxygen and carbon form carbon dioxide inside every person and animal, and our body temp is only 98.6 degrees F.

An excellent analogy.

The reason for not using O2 is that there is a certain ratio of fuel to air too. It is called the stociometric ratio (14.5 to 1...fuel to air) All you would do w/ solid O2 is effectively lean out the engine. That is also why Nitrous wrecks engines. If too much nitrous is used, the engine will run very lean and will start to knock (pre-ignition). This blows holes in the pistons and breaks ringlands.

Exactly... except stoich is 14.7. Trivial Schister66 is dead on, so I'll just add a little to maybe clear some things. Atmospheric air is 78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen, and 1% other stuff like carbon dioxide, helium, xenon, argon, krypton... that krypton is a joke, Superman fans Nitrous Oxide (N2O) by comparison is 33% oxygen. In engine-land that is very significant. Not only does the introduction of nitrous add more available oxygen to the party, it cools the intake charge, and (the biggie) it makes the reaction more volatile. Although jumping from 21% to 33% doesn't seem like much, the energy released from the reaction is significantly increased; more than just the percentage of oxygen added. This increase in volatility is the main reason why ignition timing must be retarded while "under the fog". The flame speed is much faster, so the time it takes from ignition to when the flame front meets the piston is very different with nitrous. Retarding the ignition prevents explosive results

Here is an example that I remember from my HIGH SCHOOL chem class. (Thank you Mr. Conrad, 1989). In an experiment we did, burning a ribbon of magnesium in atmospheric air gave off "X" amount of heat. Burning that same size ribbon in a controlled environment of 42% oxygen (twice that of atmospheric) gave off 4.5 times the heat of the original test, and the reaction happened in almost 1/10th the time. Much more volatile than the double oxygen suggests.

In answer to your original question of why not use pure oxygen.... The reactions would be far too volatile to control. The heat given off would be so monumental that the radiator would have to be about 100 times its original size, engines couldn't be made from metal since all known metals would melt at these temperatures, and other engine components would have to be built from such bulky, strong components to handle the extreme forces created by the combustion that they wouldn't fit inside the engine.

Several alternative engine materials have been tested. Saab tried building ceramic engine blocks to handle the heat of combustion, but the fragile composition wasn't up to the alternative fuel abuse and they broke rather spectacularly.

As volatile as Nitrous Oxide is with just a mild increase in oxygen content, the thought of adding pure oxygen is just not a possibility with current technology.

[moxion234]

would just like to point out that liquid oxygen is not flamable it supports cumbustion!! but i agree with everything else everyone said so i did it a different way check out my thread!!

[Schister66]

Originally Posted by moxion234

would just like to point out that liquid oxygen is not flamable it supports cumbustion!!

I hope that that means that it is still extremely volatile. If you don't think that oxygen is flammable, go to a hospital and try to smoke near one of the tanks. I think i know what you were trying to say though.

[curtis73]

Actually, moxion is correct. Oxygen does not burn. It makes everything else burn. Combustion is the process of combining a fuel with oxygen, so the oxygen itself doesn't burn, but it is what gets used during combustion.

If you try to ignite pure oxygen gas in an enclosed area, nothing happens. Oxygen can't burn because it can't combine with itself Just counterpoint, no flames intended.

[Schister66]

I assumed that's what he meant. Liquid O2 out in the atmosphere will burn, but if it is put into a vaccuum, it won't burn since it is a catalyst, not a fuel.

[454Casull]

Originally Posted by Schister66

I assumed that's what he meant. Liquid O2 out in the atmosphere will burn, but if it is put into a vaccuum, it won't burn since it is a catalyst, not a fuel.

Oxygen is not a catalyst. It gets used in any combustion reaction; a catalyst does not decrease in amount.

By the way, I don't understand where the hydrogen (that you talked about in the previous post) comes from. Are you trying to say that the presence of nitrogen dissociates the octane molecules? Ridiculous. Nitrogen is already present in air, over 70% worth, IIRC. Or are you trying to say that the octane molecules dissociate when vaporized? The C and H atoms in the molecule stay together until combusted.

Hydrogen burning in oxygen... AFAIK, the reaction is extremely quick (quicker than we want in the combustion chamber) and does not provide much energy (which we do want).

IIRC, N2O provides power through the following: the addition of N2O decreases the temperature of the intake charge (due to the fact that it is stored as a liquid); the N2O dissociates into N2 and O2 above a certain temperature which is exceeded in the cylinder, which provides additional oxygen to burn;, and there should be one more thing which I can't remember at the moment...

[moxion234]

I assumed that's what he meant. Liquid O2 out in the atmosphere will burn, but if it is put into a vaccuum, it won't burn since it is a catalyst, not a fuel.
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100% liquid oxygen will not burn no matter what!! even if you put in a vaccuum (sp) or the atmoshpere or up the old whaazoo any one that thinks im wrong is more than welcome to try me. once again oxygen supports combustion it in its self is not flamable. if you took a tank of liquid oxygen opened it and had nothing combustable around an open flame would burn a little hotter and faster because there was more oxygen to SUPPORT the combustion. it would not burn like if you did the same with a propane tank. no cool flame thrower and no cool explosion period!!!!!

[curtis73]

Alright, everybody, let's be nice. The facts are the facts... oxygen is not flammable. It just makes everything it touches flammable. If you light a match in a pure oxygen environment, there will be an explosion; the match. It will blow up like a firecrakcer, so will your skin, clothes, the floor, walls, and ceiling, but the oxygen itself will not burn.

Oxygen physically does not burn, combust, explode, anything. It can't.

[CBFryman]

Curtis, so much bad chemistry going around it isnt even funny....how could you let this happen?

im not trying to be an ass, compliments will be given...im just nit pickey (and i will end up being wronge somehwere too)

Originally Posted by Schister66

I'm not going to say anything more than this, if you put NOS in a post, people are going to slaughter your post and tell you that it is nitrous, not NOS....NOS is a company.

Nawz!!!1!!!1 1t pwnzzzz jooo!!!!!11!!!1

Anyway, nitrous is used in the car to boost horsepower by adding more oxygen in the combustion. It also cools the intake air.

100% correct

Chemistry class now in session

When a fuel burns, each molecule needs an equal amount of opposite molecules to attach to. In this way, if you burn a hydrocarbon fuel like gasoline with air, most if not all of the hydrocarbon chains (gasoline) will break down and pair up w/ an oxygen or nitrogen molecule.(Nitrogen is more common in air than oxygen).

actually proportions of air to gasoline is 15:1.... since air is about 1/5 oxygen, oxygen to gasoline is about 75:1.... nice try though... i could work out a balenced equasion for the 4 main carbon chains in gasoline and make ass out of myself fo'real, but i wont... just remeber... all that matters is Moles... in all reality 100% combustion of a hydrocarbon nothing but carbondioxide and dihydrogenmonoxide (because we all know dihydrogenmonoxide is so harmful to our health ) will be all that is left. but because engines burn the fule so fast and at bad proportions of air to fule (most cars are around 12:1 instad of 15:1) we have left over hydrogen ions to combine with nitrogen to make nitric acid and incomplete forming of carbondioxide to fomr carbonmonoxide and incomplete foriming of dihydrogenmonoxide to form hydroxide ions (OH-) to make deadly bases along with left over unburn hydrocarbons which are mostly taken out by the catalytic converter.

you where close and almost correct.... and for thoes who dont understand/care about chemistry.... dont listen to me...

Heres the part you need to understand.

Correct me if i'm wrong here chem guys!
Oxygen and hydrogen will burn the hottest and steadiest in the cylinder and that is the desired combination. In a combustion stroke w/o Nitros, some of the hydrogen molecules will escape unburned because the oxygen paired w/ a carbon molecule. This forms carbon dioxide. The reaction between carbon and oxygen is not very hot however. Oxygen and carbon form carbon dioxide inside every person and animal, and our body temp is only 98.6 degrees F.

well not exactly correct.... our body temp isnt related to the making of carbondioxide..... its the releasing of energy from the carbons we take in to form carbondioxide....remember that mixture of any carbonate and an acid? it forms carbon dioxide (such as calciumbicarbonate and acedic acide..... ie vinegar and bakin soda) wont be very hot but it relases alot more co2 than we do.... also remember that on average we are worth about 1/5th of a hp..... even a weak little engine will be making 100hp.... that is 500 times what out bodies are worth.... but you got the left over hydrogen and all that pretty straight...

The reason for adding N20 not liquid o2 is that basically the nitrogen will pair w/ the carbon forming trace amounts of a basic cyanide. This allows the hydrogen and oxygen to burn together. The two combos that i just listed are the desired ones, but actually all of the molecules just burn w/ whatever is nearby.

remember than nitrosoxide will only release oxygen if is heated up... just adding wo that you said.... this makes N20 spliti nto N2 (nitrogen gas) and 0 (extremely reactive oxygen) for hte most part the oxygen atoms dont have time to form a covalent bond into 02.... 02 that we have in oxygen tanks for say welding would have to brake the covalent bond... not that it is hard to brake covalent bonds but that just a little extra lost enegy before you blow the heads straight off your engine.... and weld your postons to the cylender walls

The reason for not using O2 is that there is a certain ratio of fuel to air too. It is called the stociometric ratio (14.5 to 1...fuel to air) All you would do w/ solid O2 is effectively lean out the engine. That is also why Nitrous wrecks engines. If too much nitrous is used, the engine will run very lean and will start to knock (pre-ignition). This blows holes in the pistons and breaks ringlands.

good, but that is why for every 75moles or so of oxygen you need one mole of hydrocabon chains....

Corrections are welcomed if there is a mistake.

done deal

well i hope i didnt look like too much of a jackass, but i am nit pickey...
curtis feel free to correct my mistakes i know i made at least 3...