Sunfires, Cavaliers, Neons

[MRfaboLAOS]

I Totally Dislike Pontiac Sunfires, Chevy Cavaliers, And Dodge Neons, The New Srt Neons Are Ok But Otherwise Why The Hell Would U Spend Soo Much Money In A Car That Is Sooo Ugly And Sooo Slow. Girls That Drive Them Its Ok. But When I See A Male Driving One Of Them With A Body Kit And Stock Rims, U Can't Help But To Hate. Even Though I Am A Import Fan I Dont Really Like Honda Civic Coupes Or Sedans, Although Hatchbacks Are Decent As Hell. Basically Every Honda Except For The Hatchback Civics, S2000, And Nsx. I Respect 10% Of American Cars. I Agree That Most Of Them Are Quick As Hell, But They Are Also Costly. Corvettes And Vipers N Old Muscle Cars Are Decent. But No Neons, No Cavaliers, No Sunfires.

[Misundaztood]

I can respect them for what they are ie. economy cars. I even like to see show exambles. But when the owner is an ass thinking his car is God's gift to the automotive world, well...

[hockeygod2787]

.:C.H.R.I.S:.

[jon@af]

I'll have to go with Alan on this one in that they are good for what their purpose is: economy cars. People shouldnt be buying these cars for hotrods anyways, they werent designed to be such. Also, on the topic of body kits and such, I honestly dont care anymore. It's that person's money, Im not gonna stop them from blowing it on what they like, so if it makes them happy, Im not one to poke fun.

[genjy]

Originally Posted by MRfaboLAOS

I Totally Dislike Pontiac Sunfires, Chevy Cavaliers, And Dodge Neons, The New Srt Neons Are Ok But Otherwise Why The Hell Would U Spend Soo Much Money In A Car That Is Sooo Ugly And Sooo Slow. Girls That Drive Them Its Ok. But When I See A Male Driving One Of Them With A Body Kit And Stock Rims, U Can't Help But To Hate. Even Though I Am A Import Fan I Dont Really Like Honda Civic Coupes Or Sedans, Although Hatchbacks Are Decent As Hell. Basically Every Honda Except For The Hatchback Civics, S2000, And Nsx. I Respect 10% Of American Cars. I Agree That Most Of Them Are Quick As Hell, But They Are Also Costly. Corvettes And Vipers N Old Muscle Cars Are Decent. But No Neons, No Cavaliers, No Sunfires.

How are American cars "costly"? I have 3 American cars at home, and they are pretty old too. They haven't given me any major problems. How many American cars have you owned?

[blues02TA]

My biggest pet peeve and what I cannot figure out to this day, is why Cavalier owners think they have race cars??? I swear I get Cavaliers trying to pass me up all the time OR keep up with me. I let them get right next to me, drop it down into 3rd, and blow their doors off! Also, what is up with the yellow Cavaliers and Sunfires I see everywhere. Yellow should be saved for the Sports cars only (my opinion anyways).

[MRfaboLAOS]

Originally Posted by genjy

How are American cars "costly"? I have 3 American cars at home, and they are pretty old too. They haven't given me any major problems. How many American cars have you owned?

my uncle purchased a brand new ford focus a couple of years ago, took care of everything at the local ford dealership. it then turned out that the alternator needed to be replaced within 20,000 miles on the odometer. so then he later traded it in for a 1998 honda accord ex. the trade in price for the focus was 6,500. ive also noticed that while lookin through the classified section american car value in the used car section are alot cheaper than imports. i think the imports keep their value longer than domestics. i do agree that some american cars are good but y buy a intrepid when u can buy car and drivers top 10 award winner for the past couple of years, the accord.

[OoNismoO]

Originally Posted by ILike2DriveCars

I'll have to go with Alan on this one in that they are good for what their purpose is: economy cars. People shouldnt be buying these cars for hotrods anyways, they werent designed to be such. Also, on the topic of body kits and such, I honestly dont care anymore. It's that person's money, Im not gonna stop them from blowing it on what they like, so if it makes them happy, Im not one to poke fun.

so economy cars shouldnt be modified? you know back in the 60s, novas were in no way considered performance cars, you know more like point a to point b, but when they started stuffing bigger engines in lighter cars, like the nova, it turned into a serious drag car. just like stuffing bigger engines in lighter honda models, and other compact cars.

[MRfaboLAOS]

Originally Posted by OoNismoO

so economy cars shouldnt be modified? you know back in the 60s, novas, and chevelles werent considered performance vehicles, but when they started stuffing bigger engine in lighter cars such as those two, it turned into one. just like stuffing bigger engines in lighter honda models, and other compact cars.

I AGREE. ECONOMY CARS CAN BE MODIFIED, BUT NEONS, CAVALIERS, AND SUNFIRES, NO. HONDA HAS ENGINEERED THEIR ENGINES TO GET GOOD MILAGE AS WELL AS OK POWER. ITS NOT ONLY ABOUT ENGINES N MODIFYING, BUT LIKE THE LOOKS OF THOSE THREE CARS ARE HORRIBLE. I PERSONALLY DONT LIKE FRONT WHEEL DRIVE CARS. EXCEPT FOR CIVIC HATCHBACKS AND CRXS. ACCORDS N OTHER SEDANS N COUPES ARE TOO HEAVY TO BE RUNNING ON THE FRONT TIRES STOCK. I KNOW THAT FUNNY CAR N OTHER CLASS DRAG RACING CAN GET THEM TO RUN REALLY QUICK NUMBERS, BUT THATS EXTENSIVE AND COSTLY FOR US AVERAGE INCOME CITIZENS. IM JUST SAYING WHY BUY A SUNFIRE FOR 6-9 GRAND, WHILE U CAN BUY A CIVIC FOR LIKE 1 GRAND N SWAP ENGINES? IM NOT SURE IF THERE ARE ALOT OF SWAPPING FOR SUNFIRES, SATURNS, NEONS, AND CAVALIERS. BUT A TYPE R ENGINE IN A LIGHT BODY HATCH IS QUICK WITH STOCK INTERNALS N NO BOLT ONS. AND STILL BEING ABLE TO WHOOP SOME V6'S ON THE STREETS. NOT TO MENTION THE RESPECT U GET, AND ALSO A GOOD PLATFORM TO START WINNING AWARDS AT CAR SHOWS. CAN U WIN ALOT OF AWARDS IN A NEON, EXCEPT FOR BEST DOMESTIC OF SHOW? NOT LIKELY.

[jon@af]

Originally Posted by OoNismoO

so economy cars shouldnt be modified? you know back in the 60s, novas were in no way considered performance cars, you know more like point a to point b, but when they started stuffing bigger engines in lighter cars, like the nova, it turned into a serious drag car. just like stuffing bigger engines in lighter honda models, and other compact cars.

Just my take on the situation man. MRfaboLAOS, do you think you could maybe stop with the caps lock, that's really really annoying.

[MRfaboLAOS]

Originally Posted by ILike2DriveCars

Just my take on the situation man. MRfaboLAOS, do you think you could maybe stop with the caps lock, that's really really annoying.

MY BAD, I LEAVE MY CAPS ON ALL THE TIME. I DUNNO IM RETARDED LIKE THAT, I JUST NEED TO HAVE EVERYTHING LIKE LEVER N PERFECT. IM LIKE AN ARTIST AND LIKE I NEED TO SEE EVERYTHING MATCH. EVERYTHING HAS TO BE CLEAN N LEVEL. BUT THE AUTOMOTIVE FORUMS WEBSITES TURN EVERY LETTER AFTER THE FIRST LOWER CAPS

[Polygon]

Originally Posted by MRfaboLAOS

my uncle purchased a brand new ford focus a couple of years ago, took care of everything at the local ford dealership. it then turned out that the alternator needed to be replaced within 20,000 miles on the odometer. so then he later traded it in for a 1998 honda accord ex. the trade in price for the focus was 6,500. ive also noticed that while lookin through the classified section american car value in the used car section are alot cheaper than imports. i think the imports keep their value longer than domestics. i do agree that some american cars are good but y buy a intrepid when u can buy car and drivers top 10 award winner for the past couple of years, the accord.

First off, just because the alternator goes bad doesn't mean that the car was a shit box. Nobody can make a perfect product. You will have parts that roll off the assembly line that will break. It doesn't matter where they are manufactured, absolutely NO company can turn out a perfect product. I can't believe that you assume all American cars are crap just because you had a Ford where the alternator went out at 20,000 miles. Also, a lot of Hondas are manufactured here in the states. It is much less money than importing them.

As for market value, you are a perfect example of why that doesn't mean jack shit. Car values are decided by a group of idiots that make assumptions like you did about a car. Just because it has a low resell does not make it a bad car. It means that someone else thought it was worth that much. It has very little reflection on a cars reliability. I assure you that every car company makes shitty cars.

Now for the original topic. First off, I would like to point out to you that the Cavalier and the Sunfire is the same damn car. Second, the SRT is NOT a Neon. While it might have a striking resemblance to the Neon it shares very little else in common with it. In fact no where on the car are there any Neon badges and Dodge isn't marketing it as a Neon once again it is just people making assumptions. It get a lot better though. You're bitching about people modifying their econo cars. I don't see a problem with that "run what ya' brung." I admire people that do that, but they have to do it tastefully. I agree that they need to understand what they have and not pretend they have a Ferrari. However; why don't you bitch at Subaru, Mitsubishi, and Nissan. They have been doing it for years. The WRX and the STi are based on the Impreza which is an economy car. The Lancer Evolution is based on the economy Lancer. Also the raved Skyline GTR34 is based on the Skyline which is a economy car and even used as a taxi in Japan. A lot of fast cars have been based off humble roots. Who gives a shit what other people do? Let them do what they want. If they want to be stupid then let them be, there is nothing you can do about it. However; don't be surprised if you get you ass handed to you by one, they are called sleepers.

[MRfaboLAOS]

Originally Posted by Polygon

First off, just because the alternator goes bad doesn't mean that the car was a shit box. Nobody can make a perfect product. You will have parts that roll off the assembly line that will break. It doesn't matter where they are manufactured, absolutely NO company can turn out a perfect product. I can't believe that you assume all American cars are crap just because you had a Ford where the alternator went out at 20,000 miles. Also, a lot of Hondas are manufactured here in the states. It is much less money than importing them.

As for market value, you are a perfect example of why that doesn't mean jack shit. Car values are decided by a group of idiots that make assumptions like you did about a car. Just because it has a low resell does not make it a bad car. It means that someone else thought it was worth that much. It has very little reflection on a cars reliability. I assure you that every car company makes shitty cars.

Now for the original topic. First off, I would like to point out to you that the Cavalier and the Sunfire is the same damn car. Second, the SRT is NOT a Neon. While it might have a striking resemblance to the Neon it shares very little else in common with it. In fact no where on the car are there any Neon badges and Dodge isn't marketing it as a Neon once again it is just people making assumptions. It get a lot better though. You're bitching about people modifying their econo cars. I don't see a problem with that "run what ya' brung." I admire people that do that, but they have to do it tastefully. I agree that they need to understand what they have and not pretend they have a Ferrari. However; why don't you bitch at Subaru, Mitsubishi, and Nissan. They have been doing it for years. The WRX and the STi are based on the Impreza which is an economy car. The Lancer Evolution is based on the economy Lancer. Also the raved Skyline GTR34 is based on the Skyline which is a economy car and even used as a taxi in Japan. A lot of fast cars have been based off humble roots. Who gives a shit what other people do? Let them do what they want. If they want to be stupid then let them be, there is nothing you can do about it. However; don't be surprised if you get you ass handed to you by one, they are called sleepers.

I AGREE THAT ALL MAKES DONT MAKE PERFECT CARS. THE HONDA ACCORD 2000 MODEL HAD THOUSANDS OF RECALLS DUE TO IGNITION PROBLEMS. BUT IF U DRIVE DOWN THE HIGHWAY WHAT SORT OF CARS DO U SEE ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD? MOSTLY DOMESTICS. I SAW ONLY ONE 1992 TOYOTA CAMRY ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD SO FAR, N TRUST ME DRIVING FROM CHICAGO ILLINOIS TO VIRGINIA EVERY YEAR I DO SPEND ENOUGH TIME ON THE HIGHWAY TO NOTICE THIS. N THE SRT IS BASICALLY A NEON, WHO GIVES A SHIT WHAT THEY CALL IT, SAME PLATFORM SAME LOOK, BASICALLY SAME CAR. SURE THEY CHANGED THE ENGINE N EVERYTHING ELSE, ITS A TOP MODEL NEON, IT ISNT GOING TO REPLACE THE ECONOMY NEON. AND ITS ABOUT TIME THEY STARTED DOING THINGS RIGHT BY SPENDING TIME ENGINEERING. YES ALOT OF CARS TODAY THAT ARE MAKING BIG POWER OR DECENT POWER MOSTLY ORIGINATED FROM ECONOMY CARS. WHICH IS WHAT, GOOD ENGINEERING? THEY THINK ECON FIRST THEN PERFORMANCE. UNLIKE AMERICANS WHO MOSTLY THINK POWER FIRST. HEY HOW ABOUT U GO N TAKE THAT 800HP, 10 SECOND CAMARO OR MUSTANG OR CHEVELLE, AND BRING IT TO A CIRCUIT TRACK. SEE WHAT TIMES U GET. AND THEN NOW U CAN TAKE ONE OF OUT 800HP SUPRA OR 600HP SILVIA THAT RUNS 11'S AND BRING IT ON THE TRACK. SURE U GUYS GOT QUICK TIMES, BUT HOW FUN IS IT GOING IN A STRAIT LINE FOR THE REST OF UR LIVES? YOU GUYS GET GREAT TIMES DUE TO SUSPENSIONS ARE STIFF, FAT SLICKS IN THE BACK. WE CAN DO AROUND THE SAME TIMES. AND STILL TAKE THEM TO THE TRACK. AND DRIVE IT DAILY DUE TO A BOOST CONTROLLER. I DONT THINK THERE IS SUCH THING AS A BOOST CONTROLLER FOR A SUPERCHARGED V8 6.0L BIG BLOCK. SO U GUYS BRING IT OUT EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE.
I NEVA HATED ON THE NEON SRT. PLUS THAT CAR ALSO SPORTS A MITSUBISHI TURBOCHARGER. CAVALIERS N SUNFIRES, I DONT KNOW ALOT ABOUT N I COULD CARE LESS. THEY MIGHT HAVE THE SAME ENGINE I DUNNO. WHO CARES. ALL I KNOW IS THAT THEY ARENT GREAT. THINK N SEE WHO DESIGNS GOOD CARS. DO U SEE FORD IN THE INDY500, I DONT THINK SO, OR DO U SEE FORD MAKING MOTORCYCLES? GENERATORS? AIRPLANE ENGINES? I WILL NOT HATE ON AMERICA, I LOVE THIS COUNTRY TO DEATH, BUT WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO CATCH UP TO JAPS. CAR VALUES MAY BE SET UP BUY SOME DUMB IDIOT WHO JUDGES CARS. BUT GUESS WHAT IF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THINK THE SAME N AGREE WITH THAT RATING, WHAT MAKES U THINK THAT THEY WILL LOOK N SAY HEY THAT CAR IS WORTH MORE, LEMME PAY MORE FOR IT. HMMM NO. THATS Y ITS BEEN LIKE THIS FOR YEARS. PEOPLE LOWER THE RESALE VALUE BECAUSE THATS WHAT PEOPLE WOULD PAY FOR IT, NOT CAUSE SOME MORON SAID SO. IT MAY NOT BE A BAD CAR, BUT ITS NOT THE BEST FOR THE MONEY. WOULD U LIKE TO BUY A NEW CAR FOR 15 GRAND THEN SELL IT IN TWO YEARS FOR 8 GRAND? OR WOULD U BUY A CAR THAT WONT HAVE ALOT OF PROBLEMS FOR 15 GRAND HAVE MORE GAS MILAGE, AND BE ABLE TO RESELL IT FOR 11 OR MORE? I ALSO AGREE U CAN DO A DECENT CAVALIER AS I SAID. BUT Y, SHIT I CAN GO BUY A GEO AND MAKE IT RUN 13'S, BUT Y. WHEN U CAN DO BETTER CHEAPER. I KNOW WHAT SLEEPERS ARE. MY GUYS GOT A STOCK CRX, WITH A BABY SEAT IN THE BACK N HUBS, THAT RUBS LOW 13'S. DONT MATTER WHAT IT IS IF U DID IT RIGHT U GET PROPS, BUT IF U DONT U DONT GET ANY. BUT THEN AGAIN Y. Y TRICK OUT A CHICK CAR WHEN U A DUDE? I LOOK AT IT LIKE, THE CAVALIER IS SOMETHING UR MOM N DAD BOUGHT U, THEN U SEE THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS, SO U GO N THROW A FAT BOOTLEG EXAUGHST THAT MAKES NOISE BUT LITTLE POWER, AND THAT UGLY BODY KIT. AND BY THE WAY THE SKYLINE GT-R ISNT BASED ON THE OLD SKYLINE. THEY TURNED IT INTO A SPORTS CAR. AND TAXIS IN JAPAN ARE NOT SKYLINES. ONLY A FEW COP CARS ARE SKYLINES IN ORDER TO CATCH SOME OF THOSE QUICK ASS HIGHWAY KINGS SEEN EVERYWHERE OVER THERE. HOW BOUT NEXT TIME U READ AND UNDERSTAND WHAT I SAID.

[Polygon]

Really, lay off the caps, that was so annoying to read.

1. I drive a good ways to work everyday and I see a lot of every kind of car on the side of the road. I don't generalize that Toyota makes shitty cars becuase I saw two of them on the side of the road. Who knows how well these people are taking care of their cars? All I know is that none of the domestic cars I, or my family have ever owned have left us stranded on the side of the road.

2. The SRT-4 is not a Neon and is not the same platform. It doesn't even have the same frame. The front seats are the sames ones you'll find in the Viper. The engine and transmission are different. All it shares are the looks.

3. So, you're saying that getting big power from small engines is good engineering? You also say it is about time that Dodge did it. Well, they have been doing that since before Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, and Mazda. They were turbocharging engines in the very early 80s turning all sorts of their econo cars into rockets. They helped start the sport compact era.

4. Let me explain something to you. You can't have both. You can't have a car that will handle well on the track and be able to lay down fast times on the 1/4 strip. They are different suspension setups. I can make an old car like that do pretty damn good on the track. Take out the high sidewall tires, swap out the suspension, stiffen up the body and frame, install an LSD, and hell even go as far as mounting the engine in the rear. If you did that to a Plymouth Superbird, well I would say it would do amazingly well on the track. Also, I don't see what the point of this is, it has nothing to do with reliability. On a side note, I don't like superchargers. If I had a V8 and went forced induction I would go with a turbo.

5. I am by no means a Ford fan but since you used them as an example so will I. The GT-40 dominated GT racing stomping all over cars like Ferrari. Ford is also doing pretty well in WRC with their Focus platform. Dodge dominted LeMans in 98 and 99 with the Viper GTS-R beating out the Prototype class. There are plenty of examples were American cars have outperfromed. Also, when I buy I generator or a lawnmower I don't give a shit that Ford doesn't make one. Craftsman makes pretty damn good ones. I am not a brand biased sheep like you seem to be.

6. You aren't seeing the point here as far as car values go. Resell is decided by things like how many of the cars were produced, how many were sold, and there are a lot of other factors and 99.8% of the time reliability isn't one of them. A good example is Lotus. They make great cars yet the resell is so low, why? Explain that one to me. They don't have reliability issues. They make some of the best handling cars on the market. They are also dead sexy. It is because they aren't Ferrari or some other high marked brand. It is because of stupidity.

7. As for the Cav, I couldn't care less. It isn't a car I would buy, you simply used it as an example. As for the Skyline, they do use them as taxis in Japan granted they aren't R34s they are base model sedans but they still are Skylines. My point was that the Skyline is based off an economy car.

[Jimster]

The Skylines aren't really Econo cars- just shonky Luxury saloons- I suppose they compete with cars like the Altezza- the GTR of course shares little with the base Skylines- aside from the (modified) R chassis. But that's irrelevant.

What makes you (The thread-starter) think a Cavalier can't be as good as any tuned Honda or Mitsubishi??? The Cavalier is sold as Toyotas in Japan and as a result there are plenty of TRD hop-up parts- and the ECOTEC's can be tuned to some good figures. Personally I am a road-course racer- I don't run on the strip- and trust me there are some Camaros that run here with modified Corvette IRS (And built as track cars) that can destroy even Ferrari 550 Maranellos. Don't sicriminate against anything because of where it's built