Near Ft. Lauderdale, FL - Want to see a McLaren F1???

[Peloton25]

I found this on another forum. It was just posted 4 days ago and is referencing the 15th of this month:

...if you're talking to me the one I saw was a silver titanium color. It's weird to because I saw it at a Ferrari dealer. It's one sitting in the show room of Shelton Ferrari in Ft Lauderdale. Anyone can just walk in a take a look at it. I have several pictures of the car and 1 or 2 with me standing next to the car but I don't know how to post pictures on this freakin thing. How can I post a pic?

By the way I think the guy who owns the McLaren in there is trading it for an Enzo. The Enzo is going for a cool 1.4 million in South Florida. They also have an F40 in the show room and I was totally blown away, that is one beautiful car. That's the first F40 I've ever seen, and some guy had his F50 in the back getting serviced. I **** you not, I saw an F40, McLaren F1, and an F50 all at the same Ferrari dealership on the same day last week. All within 100 yards of each other. The F40 and McLaren were sitting close to each other in the showroom and the F50 was in the garage. Not to mention I was surrounded by 360s, F355s, and 550 Maranellos. I was one lucky man last week. I have the pics of the 40 and McLaren but can't figure out how to post them here.

And so with this info, I went to the Shelton Ferrari website and sure enough, you can see the car in two photos on the site. In the first shot, it is nearly centered - right under the "Ferrari" sign. In the second shot, you can see the side of the car in the back right corner of the showroom.





If anyone is local and can go see the car PLEASE take a camera with you - preferrably a digital one so you can easily share the pics with us. This guy who originally posted the info hasn't managed to get his on the web yet.

Also - make sure to find out which F1 road car this is. If no one will tell you, you should be able to read the plaque just ahead of the shifter where the keyhole is - that will give you the production number. If you can find out the name of the current owner, that would be excellent too but I doubt they are handing that info out. If I had to guess, I'd say that it could be Elon Musk's car being that it is silver and that his car wore Florida plates in the last set of photos that I saw of it.

Good luck - and you may wish to call ahead to be sure that the car is still there if it's a long distance to travel for you.

>8^)
ER

[XOTech]

Peloton,
As irony would have it, I called Shelton about the car just a few days ago. The car is not for sale. It is a "customer's car" that is being used purely for business attraction. As you would expect, they were not interested in providing details, but upon my inquiry, did go so far as to say that the car was not Elon Musk's, nor Ralph Lauren's. I have my suspicions, but no confirmation as of yet.

As a possible solution, the gentleman that took pictures of the car could possibly email the pictures to you or myself, and either of us would post them as needed.

[Peloton25]

Thanks for looking into it XO-Tech. :sun:

As for silver cars in the US, I count the two you mentioned, plus Carl Beal's, Herb Chamber's, and I have heard that Larry Ellison's car is also silver. I wouldn't think that it would be either of those three though.

There is also a gentleman in Florida - Gerd Petrik - who has a Dk Silver F1, but the Shelton car doesn't appear to be that color from the photos that I posted here. He also owns the only CLK-GTR Strasseversion (#4 of 25) that I'm aware of in the US. An article I read said that he was able to buy that car for 1.7mil after finding a champion horse for the daughter of the co-founder of AMG. On top of that he still had to pay another couple hundred thousand dollars to bring here and legalize it. Also in his collection is the only Euro-spec F50 that has been brought into the US which seems surprising as I was not aware that DOT would let those in. Things may have changed since that article was written of course.

Anyway, I put a very similar thread to this one on a few other forums in the hope that someone locally will get out there and check it out for me. I don't have any faith that we'll see the photos from that original poster any time soon. If I get anything back through those other threads, I will of course share it with the group.

>8^)
ER

[faisalkhan]

That story about him finding the champoin horse sounds like horse poo to me!

Anyone with a car collection like his and financial resources like his can buy any car in the world. And he didn't need to pay 200k extra to legalize anything either. The European F50 is pretty much the same except for lights and emissions equipment. After numerous 360 Modenas were shipped in privately during the speculative days, Ferrari raised a big fuss about how they were substantially different in order to make it harder for private importers to make a buck and upset their carefully controlled supply of cars to each market. They submitted a list of over 200 differences, most of which were found to be completely insignificant (such as Italian versus English versus Arabic labels, etc.). They were just using their financial and legal muscle to try and control the market.

Gerd Petrik bought one of the AmericSpec McLarens, so it already had all of the Amerispec "modifications" and he bought the CLK-GTR into the coutnry under the show and display exemption. With that exemption, you can bring in approved special and rare cars even if they don't conform to safety regulations. It costs under $200 to apply for this exemption from the NHTSA.

Such cars are still required to pass EPA smog requirements, which can be extremely expensive--I have heard that a McLaren will cost 50-80,000 USD to bring into compliance with emissions laws. However, Gerd Petrik lives in Florida, which has no smog requirement.

[Peloton25]

Originally posted by faisalkhan
That story about him finding the champoin horse sounds like horse poo to me!

You can read the article here - I don't make this stuff up:

http://www.departures.com/wg/wg_1100...itioncars.html

The European F50 is pretty much the same except for lights and emissions equipment.

That doesn't change the fact that the current laws of this country do not allow for the import of non-US-spec F50s. Do some research on what cars are allowed under Show&Display and you will see that the F50 is excluded. I know that Ferrari recently raised a fuss about the grey market Ferrari's entering the US, but it was mainly to protect their dealer network and a 6-7 year old used F50 coming into the country wouldn't infringe on that the way the new Modena's have.

Such cars are still required to pass EPA smog requirements, which can be extremely expensive... However, Gerd Petrik lives in Florida, which has no smog requirement.

There are still government regulations on emission levels mandated by the EPA and the car must be modified to meet those. Whether he has to get a smog check every other year isn't relevant to the initial import requirements.

= = = = =

Incidentally faisalkhan - your response to the info presented here seems rather hostile. This isn't a battle, we're just here to discuss the F1 and share information. If you have differing info or opinion on something there are more tactful ways to share it or correct someone. Just food for thought...

>8^)
ER

[XOTech]

Peloton,
The F50 does not require Show & Display in order to be imported. It is allowed because there was an equivalent U.S. car for the car. Specifically, only the 1995 F50 can be imported. Since there is no 1996 or 1997 F50 that was originally imported to the U.S. the European 1996 & 97 cars cannot be imported. I have had several '95s done for buyers here in the US. I assure you there is more than one Euro F50 here in the states. My guess would be somewhere around 8-10 cars. The next time I speak to one of my contacts that has access to that type of information, I will ask him.

Faisal,
Despite the fact that an Amerispec car "complies" with the US specs (aka: converted) They do not fully comply with DOT nor EPA. As found by a review of what Amerispec actually did to the cars (read: next to nothing). As a result, all 7 original Amerispec cars were asked to file for S&D exemption. The requirement to retest them for EPA certification has not yet been sorted out, such is the case with Gerd Petrik's car regardless of his Florida residence status. There is a 49 state EPA certification and a California certification. California being the most strict and difficult to pass. Thankfully, the McLaren is not only a wonderful car but also quite clean and with some work, it can pass California EPA Certification.

The CLK GTR was pursued for conversion elgibility but has since been ruled as not possible. The car did not pass certification. Despite the fact that the CLK GTR was considered for the Show & Display exemption, NO cars have been approved for imporation. There are 3 cars currently here in the states. One of which is Petrik's car. Despite the money spent to pass the car, it did not. In order to pass the car for the EPA requirements, the engine must be removed and replaced by a (I believe) SL500 motor (similar V-12). The car would then be able to pass EPA, but has lost all of the appeal that makes the car what it is. The EPA deemed that such action was too extensive and impossible to regulate. In other words, the probablity that the owner would reinstall the original engine was likely and therefore not acceptable.

The cars that remain are here on temporary Visa's only. They remain here only on museum visas or racing only certificates. Both such permissions are temporary.

[faisalkhan]

Peloton, sorry about the tone. It was not my intent to be hostile. Also, sorry about any misinformation--Xotech, thanks for setting me straight.

If you read the departures article or the BMW roundel magazie about the McLaren, there's quite a bit of half-truths and downright BS in them. I am sure the people on these boards know a lot more about these amazing cars than what the journos write. It seems they throw in two lines of research supplemented by two pages of romantic fantasy.
Rgds,
Faisal.

[S Brake]

Originally posted by XOTech
the engine must be removed and replaced by a (I believe) SL500 motor (similar V-12)

That would be SL600, 500's are V8's

[drewwtms]

Originally posted by faisalkhan
If you read the departures article or the BMW roundel magazie about the McLaren, there's quite a bit of half-truths and downright BS in them.
Rgds,
Faisal.

I just want to clear up the above statement. There are no half-truths or BS in the Roundel article. Just about everything in there sounds right to me. The author is not related to the owner nor TMS. He is an accomplished automotive journalist - not a TMS PR person. He did his research before writing the story. Much of that story is the author's own opinion of driving the car. Indeed, much of the information in the Roundel article can be backed up by the official Driving Ambition book (which I just finished last night as a matter of fact).

No offense intended to anyone - just setting the record straight.

[Peloton25]

Originally posted by faisalkhan
Peloton, sorry about the tone. It was not my intent to be hostile.

No hard feelings. I just get turned off by message boards where every discussion turns sour when people disagree and wanted to make sure that we weren't headed that way.

Apparently, I was wrong as well on the F50 thing so we can't all be perfect. Now we'll just have to find an error in something that XO-Tech has stated so that we are all even - yeah, right

XO-Tech - that's quite a shame about the CLK-GTR's. I happen to have met the owner of one of the GTR's that's here and I got to see the car one time already. He owns 'Market Scan' a company that makes dealership software for leasing. He has an incredibly impressive collection of other cars as well, including a TWR XJ220S. I asked him with all the amazing cars in his collection, why he doesn't have a McLaren F1 and his response was that he already has one tempermental British supercar and doesn't really want another. Oh well - to each his own I guess. He told me that he and Vik Keuylian had imported of few of the TWR Jag's and that his car - the dark silver one - originally was Tom Walkinshaw's personal car. I can post photos of his CLK-GTR and the other cars from his collection if you guys are interested.

Since we are sort of on the topic of Amerispec Corp F1's - can anyone confirm this list of the owners of the 7 Ameritech F1's??

• Jay Leno's - Black with Red door stripe
• Carl Beal's - Silver - Road&Track magazine test car
• Gerd Petrik's - Dk. Silver
• Larry Ellison's - Silver - May have sold his F1 for a reported 1.6Mil ??
• Ralph Lauren - 2 different F1's - One is silver, other is unknown
• Herb Chamber's - Silver

Any corrections, additions, or deletions you can make to that list would be greatly appreciated.

>8^)
ER

[faisalkhan]

That doctor in Midland, TX, is probably the seventh guy. Unless that's Herb Chambers...dunno who that is.

Also, I saw a picture of Jay Leno's McLaren in some magazine article recently. It's maroon.

-Faisal.

[faisalkhan]

Originally posted by drewwtms



I just want to clear up the above statement. There are no half-truths or BS in the Roundel article. Just about everything in there sounds right to me. The author is not related to the owner nor TMS. He is an accomplished automotive journalist - not a TMS PR person. He did his research before writing the story. Much of that story is the author's own opinion of driving the car. Indeed, much of the information in the Roundel article can be backed up by the official Driving Ambition book (which I just finished last night as a matter of fact).

No offense intended to anyone - just setting the record straight.

You can set the record straight all you want. But you can't clear up statements I make. Only I can. Here's why I wrote that the Roundel article had inaccuracies:

It implies that cost was no object in the development of the McLaren. In fact, costs were looked at most carefully. Certainly, no expense was spared in ensuring the purity of the concept execution, but many decisions were dictated by cost, such as whether to continue developing carbon brakes or use the heavier, conventional brakes. Despite that, the low production numbers still necessitated a very high price tag. As another example, the high-mounted mirrors required too much strengthening of the door pillars. A few people still go for this option at extra cost. The switchgear inside is quite basic, too. But it was left alone due to cost considerations. As were several other items Gordon Murray was not 100% satisfied with. He is quoted in a Car magazinge article as saying he absolutely detests the bonnet stay or some such component.

It says McLaren cars produced only 107 of these cars--McLAren's own website refutes this statement and accounts for all 100 cars they have produced.

Then it says that includes 28 race cars. Not quite. 28 GTRs were produced. What about the LMs? What about the GTR LMs?

Next column, it says the show and display status is for cars that are difficult to bring into compliance with safety standards. Again, not quite. It is specifically for cars that have no hope of ever meeting the federal safety standards. Many cars are difficult to bring into compliance, but can nevertheless be brought into compliance and certified. These can all be imported and converted and (once they are certified for safety and emissions) registered for road use in America with no restrictions.

I agree these are minor points and I am nitpicking. But I read the articles to learn something, and when I find I can correct the author, it's a bit disappointing. I did enjoy the article and now that I have reread it, I would say it's more accurate than most. I would also say that it's light on technical and historical detail and seems to just touch on highlights, which most McLaren enthusiasts would already know about. Obviously, we are not the target audience, and it is perfectly presented for the intended audience (BMWCC members).

So, again, sorry if I ruffled any feathers. But please don't speak for me.
Thanks.

[drewwtms]

My apologies to Mr. faisalkhan. My attempt at defending the author of the Roundel story did come out as cutting faisalkhan off at the knees. That was not my intent. I post my opinion here and do not speak for anyone. I encourage others to do the same.

I do not wish to nitpick further so I will let the matter drop.

Thanks.

[993cc Man]

Sorry to but in but...

there were 105 cars in total produced according to McLaren. and other sites as well. Unless theres something they are not telling us... these are divided as follows:

64 "standard" road-legal F1s

28 GTR race cars (3 different versions for '95, '96 and '97 seasons)

5 road-legal F1 LMs

3 road-legal F1 GT long-tail cars (based on the '97 season race car)

plus the 5 XP cars used for development

Total: 105 cars

Now some of these cars don't exist any more due to crashes and others might have been converted to another version (eg. some GTRs might have been made road-legal) but these are all the cars that were ever produced officially. I believe some people in this forum can confirm this...

[TexasF355F1]

I asked him with all the amazing cars in his collection, why he doesn't have a McLaren F1 and his response was that he already has one tempermental British supercar and doesn't really want another. Oh well - to each his own I guess.

Even though McLaren is based in Britain, the engine is BMW so thats German.....so there really shouldn't be any tempermental problems, right?