Sienna Engine Sludge Problem

[ProMan]

Does anyone know if Toyota has any recall or extended warranty on the engine sludge problem? The dealers always point the finger to owners for unable to prove oil change once per year and deny warranty. But I heard this problem is actually caused by a defect engine design. Does Toyota decide what to do with it yet?

[frag24]

Originally Posted by ProMan

Does anyone know if Toyota has any recall or extended warranty on the engine sludge problem? The dealers always point the finger to owners for unable to prove oil change once per year and deny warranty. But I heard this problem is actually caused by a defect engine design. Does Toyota decide what to do with it yet?

heard a lot abt this problem, i own a 1998 sienna le.
but what they said is just to maintain your car, by doing regular oil changes... use ... 100% synthetic and do it 3k or 5k miles depending on usage..

[ProMan]

I do mine at 3k. But I don't use syn oil. The van is over 50k now, runs great.

[danstrong]

I bought a 98 sienna with 76K. The owner changed the oil between 5 and 8 K. No special care. So with all the horror stories of sludge, I was worried, but bought it anyways.

I took off the valve covers to check valve clearances. They are clean as a whistle.

I thought Toyota did issue a TSB for the Sludge.

Dan Strong

[slepard]

Originally Posted by danstrong

I bought a 98 sienna with 76K. The owner changed the oil between 5 and 8 K. No special care. So with all the horror stories of sludge, I was worried, but bought it anyways.

I took off the valve covers to check valve clearances. They are clean as a whistle.

I thought Toyota did issue a TSB for the Sludge.

Dan Strong

Recently bought a 2001 Sienna with 43K miles and notice the inside of the oil cap and dip stick we covered with deposits and sludge. The engine has consumed about 4 quarts of oil in 2000 miles. Three other Toyota engines I owned never required adding oil between changes. Do you have the TSB you mentioned? is it available on line? Any one else experiencing oil consumption problems along with the sludge?

Steve Lepard

[danstrong]

I found the TSB on the NHTSA website. But there are very few details. I dont think they list much unless it is a safety recall. Still, you can get the TSB number, and go to the dealer. Take your oil change receipts, good luck.

Dan Strong

[Erndog1369]

There is NOT a TSB for the sludge (engine gelling). There is a special policy adjustment (SPA) that covers Sienna, Camry and Avalons. As a Toyota technician (8 yrs), I have NEVER EVER seen a sluged engine on a vehicle that had the oil changed at a resonable interval. Toyota, in my opinion, has really gone out of it's way to help people with the problem, even though it is poor maintainence that causes the problem in the first place. I have done many of the sludge repairs, and the majority of them have had around 1 oil change per 15,000 miles. Several engines that I have done had 2 oil changes in 60,000 miles. A lot of the customers bring in their oil change receipts, and admit that they have only done a few oil changes.
I've seen a lot of 2nd owner vehicles come in comsuming oil and smoking. The owner doesn't really know the oil change history, and Toyota occassionally denies the repair.
Bottom line, change your oil, and you won't have to worry about sludge.

[danstrong]

No TSB for sludge? Did you look at the NHTSA website? Or is a Toyota Tech (with 8 years experience!!!!!!) too knowledgable that he just knows this info off the top of his head?

Service bullitin number TC02002 NHTSA# 628696?

It took me a whole 3 minutes to look up the TSB summary.

Dan Strong

[Erndog1369]

I stand corrected. There is no recall regarding sludge, there is a TSB. With thousands and thousands of TSBs, I cannot possibly remember all of them, and to be honest the whole slugde issue has me so upset that I don't want to remember the TSB.

[rubyh20]

I have a 1998 Sienna I purchased new. It now has 105,000 miles; runs great! I have changed the oil every 4000-5000 miles with Castrol 5W30 half Synthetic; AC delco filter. I change my own oil, I trust no one, I have not seen any evidence of sludge anywhere???

[asotovx]

I just bought a toyota sienna 99 with 101,200 miles, after drive it a couple of blocks a noticed the engine oil signal start to flicker and then goes steady, i decide to add an quarter oil, then drive it some other distance and the same thing happens, then add another quarter oil, It happens again and the same thing but I drove about 100 mi that way. long story Ha.., Some how this is related to the sludge engine build up you guys talk about in this tread? or shoul be a sensor issue, any help will be greatly appreciated.

[Joey#2]

I would definately get that engine checked for sludge. Only way to do it is to lift the valve cover and have a look-see. Signs of sludge are smokein exhaust, check engine light, heavy use of oil (more than quart per 1000 mi), and sometimes you will see thickness or chucnks on the dipstick.

[belgichocolate]

I've had my 1999 Sienna XLE since 10,000 mi, currently at ~96,000 mi. This is my wife's car and she drives a lot of in-town, starting/stopping. I've routinely changed the oil every 6,000 - 7000 mi. I switched a few years ago from mineral oil to synthetic. And to tell you the truth, I switched to synthetic because I wanted to extend my drain interval.
I've changed my philosophy now. It isn't worth major engine damage just to save a few bucks on oil. At first I tried full synthetic, but full synthetic has pretty agressive chemistry and I noticed some seal leakage. I changed to Valvoline Durablend and the leaks stopped.

Regarding sludge, the only thing I've noticed is in my oil fill cap I see some slight reddish brown pasty gel. The engine probably burns about 1/2 to 1 quart per 5000 mi. So, just to be on the safe side, I've just started adding a dose of Seafoam(r) additive to the crankcase to keep the internals clean. The gel is not as noticable as it was before...just a very thin film inside the cap. I will be changing oil more frequently, probably 4000 - 5000 miles.

[asotovx]

you should read this I found on other site:....................

The little Toyota engine that couldn't Once upon a time there was a Little Toyota V6 1-MZ engine. And the little engine was becoming weaker and weaker and finally it went to its maker and said, "I don't feel so good; I think that there is something wrong with me." And its maker said, "You would feel better if you would just change your oil regularly. Now away with you, you little not properly maintained engine!"

Now the little engine was really sad because it had its oil changed regularly and at the proper intervals. But, in spite of that, the little engine grew weaker and weaker and weaker. And then it died. The end.

A fairy tale you say; not if you are the owner of the Toyota V6 l-MZ engine that is in all of the Toyota vehicles manufactured from 1997 through 2002. These engines are defective and in spite of proper maintenance by the owners they develop sludge which caused major damage to the engine. At first, Toyota was in total denial and laid the blame for engine failure on the owners. This did not work.

So, in February of 2001, Toyota isssued a Special Program notice which essentially stated that Toyota would based on good will on their part (read Toyota was trying to cover their butt in the face of an impending class action suit) would repair or pay for the repairs if already done due to engine sludge.

Toyota called it "gelling". I have never heard of "gel" in an engine; however, I have heard of sludge. Well, in that there are approximately 3.3 million engines involved, this is a mighty huge problem for good ol' Toyota. This special program window was for a period of one year from the date of the letter. Needless to say, this offer went over like a lead balloon.

Especially for owners whose cars were fairly new. The one year window just wasn't long enough. But, what is more from the instant that this special program notice hit the street, everyone realized that it was a bandaid cover up for a more major problem. The engine was defective because Toyota in an attempt to achieve a cleaner burning engine for emission certification had narrowed the oil ports and raised the temperature in the heads to about 260 degrees - about 50 degrees higher than normal.

This resulted in the oil being cooked and turned to sludge
which clogged up the already too small oil ports. What is even worse is that there is a high fuel content in the oil in these engines which lowers the flash point in the oil and reduces the lubricating qualities of the oil. This marks the death knell for the engine; and Toyota had stonewalled these owners and denied them any relief under the normal warranty.

The plot thickens as Toyota recognizing that the one year window wasn't going over very well, Toyota decided to offer an 8 year unlimited mileage warranty against oil gelling (read sludge). This is all fine and dandy; however, what is the owner supposed to do as you nervously hover over the engine and constantly look for signs of sludging. Well, what I did was to send my oil off for any analysis. My car, a 2001 Toyota Avalon with just about 11,000 miles on it and with oil changed 4x in that time did not fare very well.

The analysis came back indicating that there was fuel and
silicon in the oil. The oil viscosity at 210 degrees was below the minimum level - and remember, the engine runs at 260 degrees, so the oil viscosity at that temperature would be grossly below the minimum level.

There is now at last a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Technical Service Bulletin #TC02002, Sequence #628, Item # SB628696 which is an investigatory effort into engine sludge in Toyota V6 engine 1-MZ. There is another NHTSA TSB #EG 001957, Sequence # 2, Item # SB 051257 which is another investigatory effort into internal engine noise at idle at normal operating temperature. They sound rather ominous, eh what. Well, they are!

And when you are in either a Lexus or Toyota dealer (both lines have the engine in question), ask the salesman about engine sludge and watch his face. HHHmmmmmm!!!! The answer will be something to the effect that "oh that! Toyota has modified the engine and it is alright now". Then ask them to take you to the service manager and ask the service manager to tell you specifically what was done to the engine to correct the problems and what testing was done to ensure that the fix was effective.

You won't get an intelligent answer because, boys and girls, Toyota will not reveal what they have done or put it in writing for it would be tantamount to a confession by them as to what was wrong with the engine in the first place and that it never was the owner's failure to maintain the vehicle properly.........................................

It seems, that the only good thing to do is to keep oil change records
By the way i take my van to the toyota dealer the find the jelling problem, but in order to fix it under this extended warranty program a oil change record must be provided to the dealer.

[REVots]

I have 140,000 on my 1999 sienna LE. In August, I was showing my son how to read the oil and do basic maintenance. I noticed I could not get a reading on the oil. Strange. I had just had a service done the month before at a toyota dealership here in town. Tune up, oil change, front end suspension, alignment and a few other minor things. So, I went and purchase 4 bottles of synthetic oil and figured it was just someone not putting in enough oil in my engine and that the synthetic oil was protecting my engine enough to run off of just 1 quart for the short time I drove it (200-600 mi)

Typically I go elsewhere for an oil change. But since I was having so much work done at Toyota, I decided to let them have the business. I have been using synthetic oil since about 50,000. 100% synthetic. No blends.

Last week I noticed my oil light came on. I checked the oil and it was fine and clear. I did notice that under the oil cap I had sludge built up on the cap itself and I could see some inside the engine when the cap was removed. So, I thought I would just go get an oil change and maybe a flush. On the way to a regular oil changing location, the car stalled. First time ever stalling. So, I got it started again with our problems but I noticed a performance problem and it wanted to stall more. Straight to Toyota I go for them to look at it. After an hour, the service manager handling my account had me look at the engine. Sludge everywhere. Turns out the filter had clogged and this is a known problem for Toyota's that use this engine block he told me. He then told me that Toyota will take care of everything including a rental. Cleaning of the engine, new valve covers, filters, sending parts of the engine out for re-machining, the works.

Now, I am happy with Toyota taking this stance with out any problems with out me having to beg.

I have since have heard that a new engine is being installed. Not a rebuilt/cleaned version of my engine.

Question is for anyone out there, what work should I check for before accepting the car back.

I did have the transmission fluid changed in April 2004, new belts put on and front end work done for the suspension.

I did plan on having the timing belt and waterpump replaced when it was suppose to be a "rebuilt" engine. But now with it being brand new, I am looking for what else I should be concerned about. My car never ran hot and the temperature never went up when the car stalled. I assume they will put new engine mounts in with the new engine. I also assume that the engine they are sending is not just a block, but an engine with pre-installed parts. I will find out on Monday I am sure.

Just want to make sure that I cover every base before I accept the car back from Toyota in a week or so.

While I am on a budget, now is the best time to have this work done at a "reduced price" toyota.