Protecting Decals from TS13 Clearcoat

[Didymus]

I just blasted a couple of decals with Tamiya TS13. I have to sand them off and replace them. It's just lucky that they're in an easy-to-sand location and I have extras.

I've never had a problem with clear coating decals before, but I've heard other modelers complain about trouble with TS13. These decals survived a couple of "mist coats" nicely, but when I applied a wet final coat, all hell broke lose. The rest survived, but two decals made by Cartograf were ruined.

For my next model, I'm planning to try another brand of clear coat. But I need to finish this car with Tamiya or I could run into compatibility problems. With no more spares, this will be my last chance, so:

Aside from a) not clear coating them, or b) giving them only a dry mist-coat, is there anything I can do to protect my replacement decals from the same fate?

Ddms

[ddtham]

I've used Mr Hobby Top Coat (Gloss) over TS paints with no compatibility problem.

Some people also liked to use Future floor polish over decals with successes. It depends on the size of decals, but Future can easily be drybrushed as well.

[MPWR]

Don't apply wet coats- it's pretty simple.

Apply TS13 in mist coats, and leave plenty of time (1-2 hours) between coats. After you have several mist coats built up, you can move on to heavier mist coats. But if you spray it on wet, you're asking for trouble. It's not the sort of thing you do in one session. It's wise not to try to do it all in one day (or even in one weekend). It's not hard, but it really takes some patience. Like modeling itself.

[stevenoble]

Throw the TS-13 in the bin and use another clear. Although I know that some people swear by the stuff and get great results, I've ruined more models than I care to mention with it and as such will never use it again. In my opinion it's just too 'hot' and burns the decals every time. I can't be waiting and waiting, applying mist coats etc. It's easier with Zero 1K or 2K, Finishers Auto Clear or Gunze Top Coat and your decals will not melt.

[Didymus]

Originally Posted by stevenoble

Throw the TS-13 in the bin and use another clear. Although I know that some people swear by the stuff and get great results, I've ruined more models than I care to mention with it and as such will never use it again. In my opinion it's just too 'hot' and burns the decals every time. I can't be waiting and waiting, applying mist coats etc. It's easier with Zero 1K or 2K, Finishers Auto Clear or Gunze Top Coat and your decals will not melt.

What about UPOL and Mr. Hobby?

I'll need to coat the car again after I replace the decals. Will those all be okay over the TS?

Ddms

[spideyman]

is ts-13 the only one that has this problem of melting decals?

you could try and do a couple of coats of ts-79 (semi gloss clear) build up a protective layer let it set and then go to the ts-13 over that. i havent tried this but it might work. it would work like a protective layer.

what ever you decide to do it would be a good idea to paint some scrap peaces you have laying around. i do this a lot, i have a few spare kits laying around that i bought more for parts than the kit it self. ill take the body prep and paint the exact same way that i plan to with whatever project that i am working on. as i do each step it lets me see how everything reacts with one and another. i have saved a lot of models by doing it like this.
try this and if you have some spare decals as well you could lay those down and you can try doing a ts-79 in between the decal and the ts-13.

hope this helps. good luck

[taliesen]

I don't know for certain, but I've heard someone somewhere say that the TS-79 and TS-80 are just as hot as the TS-13 - so be careful if you try this!

[klutz_100]

Originally Posted by MPWR

Don't apply wet coats use TS13 - it's pretty simple.

Use Mr Hobby Top Coat instead and you won't have any problems and you will have all the shine you could wish for. Great clear, decal safe, polishes well (although I have never needed to polish it).

Originally Posted by ddtham

Some people also liked to use Future floor polish over decals with successes.

Funnily enough, I am experimenting by using Future(Klear) on my current build after seeing the great results that Sean gets with it.

I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, if you look at the $/effect ratio I have to say it's a winner! It costs next to nothing and the results were, to be honest, much better than I expected.

On the other hand, if I compare the quality of effect and experience of using it to my favorite clear to date (Mr Hobby Top Coat), then Mr Hobby wins hands down.

My biggest issue with it is that when I brushed it on, the effect was far from what I have seen others achieve (simply, I can't do it that well). Airbrushing it on was much easier but the risk of runs is high and I had to sand some away on a couple of places. However, I think that with a little practice, I could learn to get a "feel" for it. Because coats are somewhat thinner than with eg Top Coat, you need to apply a few more with Future IMO

Net opinion: Definitely a useful thing to have in the paint armory but not for use on every occasion. Now I need to try and find another bottle of the stuff cos it's not sold here in Poland at all.

Finally, I highly and strongly recommend that you don't buy the next sexy looking kit you see on eBay but instead re-allocate that money and buy a dehydrator. I promise that you will thank me for the suggestion
To paraphrase MasterCard: Dehydrator = 20-30euros; increased modleling pleasure = priceless

[KevHw]

As with all clear coats known to be hot, you should always spray light, mist coats first. This lays the least amount of clear onto the decals first and with several coats, builds up a thick enough barrier to allow you to spray more heavily. If you use clear coats that are known to be safe, then you can be more relaxed when spraying. If you're not sure, it's always good practice to spray on light coats first anyways.

[Didymus]

Originally Posted by KevHw

As with all clear coats known to be hot, you should always spray light, mist coats first.

That's always worked for me in the past. But this time, the mist coats failed to protect the decals, and... KERBLOOIE!

The ruined decals are Cartograf; the rest are Renaissance. Seems like there's a lesson there also. But I'm not sure how much good it will do; we don't often have a choice of decal manufacturers for the same kit.

I can get Mr. Hobby at my LHS, but I'd have to order the others on-line. So it looks like Mr. Hobby gets the nod. (I really like their putty, by the way, so this could be a trend.)

Ddms

[godfather23]

I´ve been there, so I can understand the pain and disappointment you´re going through. I´d go with what MPWR said. Only apply mist coats and take your time - even days are quite a short period of time, when you take into consideration that you would need to redo all the work...

Robert

[hirofkd]

Two mist coats aren't enough to protect the decals, but four mist coat + four semi-wet will do. No full wet coat necessary, like MPWR suggested.

[Spike2933]

Originally Posted by Didymus

What about UPOL and Mr. Hobby?

I'll need to coat the car again after I replace the decals. Will those all be okay over the TS?

Ddms

Mr. Clear is good, I like Zero's clear also. I don't ever bother with Tamiya clear, their colors and primers are awesome, but the clear blows

[Didymus]

Progress Report:

I was able to easily remove the damaged decals with Scotch tape - despite the fact that they'd been cleared. So I sanded the area lightly, put on new decals, and I'm once again ready to give the car its final clearcoat(s).

Checked my LHS for Mr. Hobby Clear. I knew they carried it, but had never checked the price. Wow - $17 for a medium-size spray can! Decided to try online. Steve Noble mentioned UPOL as preferable to Tamiya TS13, so I bought two cans for $5 each, plus about $8 shipping, from Sam Ditchek & Sons. Two for the price of one, even including shipping.

It probably won't be here for a week. I'll use the break to clean up my work area and organize some stuff. Maybe even start another kit.

Now I'm just hoping the UPOL won't react with the TS13 that's already on the car. As always, I'll start with a couple of mist coats.

Ddms

[CrateCruncher]

No one has mentioned this so here goes. From my own experience I've noticed that ALL lacquer-based clears can be detrimental to the well being of my decals.

There are generally 4 types of paint based on the solvent used to maintain the color and binder in a liquid state: lacquer, acrylic, enamel, and polyurethane (2k).

In my experience it is the lacquer solvent that damages the decal, not the clear itself. Thats why lacquer based TS-17/79/80 all damage decals but Tamiya's other clear, acrylic based X-22 is harmless. (Future is basically watered down X-22 BTW.) Testors/Model Master spray-can clears are also lacquer-based and can curdle decals instantly.

I have found DuPont's 2K clear is harmless and rock hard. It's what I prefer. I've never tried enamel clears. Be careful, read the labels and experiment with extra decals if not sure.

No doubt some guys have successfully avoided sudden decal death through light misting lacquer clears but they're successful by exposing the decal to as little lacquer thinner as possible and taking a risk every time they do it. Besides, it takes longer and who wants to keep shooting and sanding dull misty finishes?

Lacquers are designed to melt the previous dry layer so they combine seemlessly. The paint becomes one big coat so you don't get rings when color sanding through layers like with enamels. Thats why the solvents are "hot". I say avoid anything that looks or smells like lacquer when working with decals. There are much better alternatives. You should be ok shooting acrylics or 2k over a previous layer of lacquer clear but, again, test in an inconspicuous place.