The Bushing Question

[packrat79]

Work slowly continues on rebuilding this '88 Civic, and now I need some advice on bushings. Nearly every last bushing on this thing is shot - either badly cracked or flaking apart. A complete bushing kit (including control arm and steering rack bushings) for this car is available from Prothane, for about $250. However, these are polyurethane; while much longer-lived, I'm told the stiffer material transfers more vibration throughout the vehicle. Which brings up several specific questions:
1. Could I compensate for this extra vibration, by using higher quality struts/springs instead of OEM's?
2. Does it actually make much difference on such a low-end vehicle?
A third option also exists; I've heard of another bushing material - polyester - and found that the control arm bushings for this car (but no others) are available in this material, from a different manufacturer. How it compares to the other two materials, I don't know.
Thanks for any advice.

[KiwiBacon]

Originally Posted by packrat79

Work slowly continues on rebuilding this '88 Civic, and now I need some advice on bushings. Nearly every last bushing on this thing is shot - either badly cracked or flaking apart. A complete bushing kit (including control arm and steering rack bushings) for this car is available from Prothane, for about $250. However, these are polyurethane; while much longer-lived, I'm told the stiffer material transfers more vibration throughout the vehicle. Which brings up several specific questions:
1. Could I compensate for this extra vibration, by using higher quality struts/springs instead of OEM's?
2. Does it actually make much difference on such a low-end vehicle?
A third option also exists; I've heard of another bushing material - polyester - and found that the control arm bushings for this car (but no others) are available in this material, from a different manufacturer. How it compares to the other two materials, I don't know.
Thanks for any advice.

How much difference will it make?
The vehicle will be a little stiffer in every direction, it's this extra stiffness that transmits more vibration. Since this vibration is not coming through the springs and dampers, changing them will not help.

The bushing material is only one component, the geometry of the bush is a bigger factor. Personally I'd be looking for as close to OEM parts as you can. Unless you're trying to make a track race car.

[packrat79]

OEM bushings seem to be rather hard-to-find, not to mention very expensive. The control arm ones cannot be purchased OEM, as Honda spec was to replace the entire control arm. The two most prominent brands are Prothane and Hyper-Flex, but both are still polyurethane. I'm not sure which of the two is better.
But even with a little extra vibration - wouldn't it still be better than with the original, worn-out bushings installed?

[KiwiBacon]

Originally Posted by packrat79

OEM bushings seem to be rather hard-to-find, not to mention very expensive. The control arm ones cannot be purchased OEM, as Honda spec was to replace the entire control arm. The two most prominent brands are Prothane and Hyper-Flex, but both are still polyurethane. I'm not sure which of the two is better.
But even with a little extra vibration - wouldn't it still be better than with the original, worn-out bushings installed?

Yes it'll definitely be better than with worn out bushings.
See if you can get both replacements side by side to feel the difference. Polyurethane is available in a wide variety of hardnesses depending on what sort of feel you're after.

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by packrat79

OEM bushings seem to be rather hard-to-find, not to mention very expensive. The control arm ones cannot be purchased OEM, as Honda spec was to replace the entire control arm. The two most prominent brands are Prothane and Hyper-Flex, but both are still polyurethane. I'm not sure which of the two is better.
But even with a little extra vibration - wouldn't it still be better than with the original, worn-out bushings installed?

Have you looked around for OEM bits?
You might be surprised how cheap they are, as the car is now of an age where most dealers are happy to get anything for the parts just so they can off load them.

And there is a good reason Honda supply the whole rear trailing arm, changing the bush is not an easy job.

[curtis73]

Do a google search in your area for something like "undercar wholesale." Many areas have a large wholesale warehouse that supplies parts stores, shops, and dealer parts counters. Chances are they have a few hundred in stock or can get them in a day.

I've never met one that wouldn't sell you stuff directly, and its usually about 30% less than retail parts counters.

[packrat79]

Originally Posted by Moppie

And there is a good reason Honda supply the whole rear trailing arm, changing the bush is not an easy job.

Exactly what all is involved in changing a bushing, at least on the trailing arm? I've read that most bushings can be pressed in/out with a vise. I also see a bushing installer kit available on places like Ebay, but I'm not sure how it works.

[Moppie]

The one on the Civic needs a proper press with a fitting on it.
Otherwise you damage the arm pushing it out, or damage the pushing putting it in.

It is easier and cheaper to just replace the arm.

I did this on my partners old '89 Civic last year, the complete arm from Honda cost less than getting an aftermarket bushing.
It also took 20 minutes to replace, where as a suspension expert I know has spent 4 hours replacing just the bush, rather than the whole arm.

[packrat79]

How can it be cheaper to replace the arm? Honda wants $379 apiece for the arms, whereas I can get a pair of those bushings (polyurethane) for just $31:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Energy-Suspension-16-7106R-Trailing-Arm-Bushings-Honda_W0QQitemZ220304049921QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m220304049921&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A 1215|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

Even if I could afford new arms, they'd still come with stock rubber bushings, which would just fail again in another 10-15 years.
I never expected this to be easy.....

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by packrat79

How can it be cheaper to replace the arm? Honda wants $379 apiece for the arms, whereas I can get a pair of those bushings (polyurethane) for just $31:

......

I guess Honda NZ has them cheaper.
I paid about US$40 each for the arms.