emissions

[chevcamaro_86]

i have a 86 camaro that has a 2.8l v-6 i want to know how do i take the emissions stuff out while leaving in important fuel injection effecting things such as the 0 2 sensor.

[curtis73]

Are they malfunctioning? If not, you won't see many hp gains, or if you do it will be very small.

The parts you can remove are EGR, cat, and air pump. The EGR has zero effect on hp since it only operates at part throttle. It does however have a large effect on fuel efficiency. Expect to burn more fuel with no help in the power department. It will also require burning a custom chip with a new timing curve. EGR reduces combustion temps and allows for more spark advance. Removing it means you'll have to retard timing which can make the fuel consumption even worse. You also may have some trouble finding someone who knows good spark maps for 2.8s. You might spend a lot of money on trial and error chip burning.

The air pump takes almost nothing to spin (maybe 1 hp) and since it injects air in the exhaust after the engine, it doesn't affect the engine's operation. If you remove the air pump you will have to remove the catalytic converter or it will get clogged very quickly. You'll also need to find a new belt/pulley configuration to accomodate the new belt routing. Might be as easy as getting a shorter belt, or it may require an idler belt of some sort.

Of the three, removing the cat would be the best choice. If its a double-bed pellet style its pretty restrictive, probably worth 3-4 hp. If its a honeycomb style its not really costing you any power. If the O2 sensors are located in the cat you'll have to weld in a new bung to put them back but that's pretty easy... $30 at a muffler shop probably.

I suggest leaving the EGR in place, ditch the converter (if its a double bed), and remove the air pump if it only requires a shorter belt.

I would personally gladly keep the status quo for two reasons; 1) why re-engineer things and do all that work for a couple hp, and 2) the amount of pollutants you'll be putting out will be exponentially greater. That is certainly not worth a couple hp to me.

Emissions components on engines starting in about 1983 started getting very sophisticated and not only do they not cost any HP, sometimes they allow conditions that IMPROVE power. They aren't the problems that people think they are.

[chevcamaro_86]

thanks for the advice but im trying to make all the room i can in the engine compartment because i got many mods to put on and dont feel like wrestling with it all and if there is any uneeded parts in the compartment i need to remove them if they are absolutly needed then is there smaller prettier looking stuff because i am also going to put this car in shows so it needs to look good and i dont think all that old emissions stuff looks good

[bobss396]

I go with leaving emissions systems intact as curtis73 suggests. If you have emissions testing in your area, your car might not comply with the standards. I have an older car and keep it bone stock emissions wise, just my way of beating the emissions thing legally plus its the "green" thing to do.

Bob

[chevcamaro_86]

yea thats fine but in my county theres no emissions testing and there isnt going to be for a while...so wats the way to remove the emissions stuff without effecting my engine or gas mileage

[curtis73]

wats the way to remove the emissions stuff without effecting my engine or gas mileage

There isn't one. It won't gain you much hp, it will be a tuning nightmare, and it will cost you MPG. So the answer is NO, you can't do it without affecting your engine and mileage. The engine will have to be completely retuned with a trial-and-error chip burning and you'll likely lose 2-5 mpg.

The emissions stuff on your car is a BENEFIT. You seem hell-bent on taking it off, so go ahead, but it won't help you. You'll spend countless hours tuning, working, and modifying, all the while spening more money than it would cost to put a 350 in it. Its your car, but in my opinion it would be the worst possible thing you could do to it next to setting fire to it.

Remove the EGR valve and fabricate a thick steel plate/metallic gasket to cover the hole. Plug the exhaust gas passages back to the intake. It might be as easy as plugging one hole, or you might have to plug all 6 holes... it depends on how your engine is plumbed. Find an expert 2.8L chip burner and buy several blank chips to burn and play around with. Expect 2-5 mpg worse. You can skip the chip burning thing and still get 2-5 mpg worse, but you'll have to burn 94 octane or better.

Remove the catalyst. Its a Federal Felony punishable by up to 5 years in jail or a $20,000 fine. I've never heard of someone going to jail, but I have heard of the fine being issued. That should get you no change in MPG, but it might be good for 5 hp, but only if its a double-bed. If its a honeycomb catalyst it will be worth zero hp.

Remove the air pump and fabricate a new idler pulley if necessary. It might get you .001 hp and change your mileage .001 mpg.

You'll increase your emissions (literally) tenfold, burn more fuel, and get 5 hp. Seems like a lot of work and money just to kill some dolphins.

What type of mods are you planning? With the crazy numbers of free 350s floating around, spending $100 on that 2.8 might not be the most financially wise move. If its what you want to do, go for it, but you asked us for help, we gave it to you, and you seem determined to not take our advice. You're fishing for the answer you want to hear, but we can't give it to you.

[UncleBob]

different emission components have different effects and side effects. Your question is really too generic. It would be much easier if you could ask about specific systems.

But to offer some generic advice: EVAP systems are mostly unintrusive. They will have no effect on mileage, power, or drivability. They are also bulky (relatively). Removing them is definitely a common modification, but as I said, no effect on power

Cats will free up a small amount of power, and will have no effect on mileage (worth mentioning) and fuel consumption or drivability. They don't really take up room though since they are outside of the engine compartment.

Air pumps have no effect on power, mileage or drivability, but they can be more difficult to remove, as Curtis mentioned, because of the belt config. It is quite common to bypass these since they like to rust up and stop working anyway. Many people just leave the air pump in place and remove teh rest of it, but you can usually get idlers to remove them.

The EGR, I honestly wouldn't remove. That will effect mileage and drivability, and will make no gain in power.

Those are the note-worthy emission items anyway. As Curtis said, you're wasting your timing on a 2.8L engine. Any penny or time you waste on that engine is money wasted. Get a real motor for that car....they are nearly free (relatively) and bolt right in with no modifications.

If you're just looking to tinker, make a spoiler out of plywood, or something else equally useful. It will be about as effective

[GreyGoose006]

you could always just gut the cat and put it back on empty.

[beef_bourito]

i've heard that that can reduce gas mileage and power because it creates turbulence in the exhaust and restricts exhaust flow.

[2.2 Straight six]

Originally Posted by beef_bourito

i've heard that that can reduce gas mileage and power because it creates turbulence in the exhaust and restricts exhaust flow.

it can do, becuase the cat is "bigger" than the exhaust piping.

for example, a 12" hollow cat has more volume than a 12" piece of exhaust piping.

the exhaust gas gets and expansion chamber from the hollow cat, then its got to be "squeezed" back into the piping, which can cause an increase in back pressure, this also depends on the design of the cat, some are cylindrical, others are different shapes. it can cause a disturbance for the gasses, but usually it's not too bad.

[GreyGoose006]

someone in the caprice forum said that doing this would increase torque...
i was going off that.

[chevcamaro_86]

alright thanks guys im just going to keep my eyes peeled for a v8

[UncleBob]

Originally Posted by beef_bourito

i've heard that that can reduce gas mileage and power because it creates turbulence in the exhaust and restricts exhaust flow.

my gut reaction is "hog wash". You are doing nothing but slightly reducing exhaust back pressure, which is almost never a bad thing. the small expansion chamber in the exhaust will have no real effect on the exhaust flow since the inlet and outlets are the same size.

These are all very slight things vs a properly working cat anyway. The backpressure will be minute. Stock systems are choked due to the pipe diameter, cats or no