More brake blues

[hondaman-iac]

ok remember when i posted brake blues ? Well i noticed in the last week that my rotors are turinmg red hot after driving. I'm not driving it hard or anything. I just wanna know wassup with that. These brakes are driving me crazy.

[enginerd]

Red hot rotors indictate that the calipers are not releasing the disc. Probably you have petroleum in your brake lines. Any petroleum based product in a brake system swells the rubber. I had a customer with the logic of : Ford says use transmission fluid in the power steering, Honda says use brake fluid in the power steering therefore: transmission fluid=brake fluid. The trans fluid contains petroleum and swelled the rubber in the brake system. All the rotors became red hot when he drove it. This is very dangerous since all your brake system does is convert kinetic energy into heat energy and brake failure is highly likely.

[hondaman-iac]

yeah i mean when it's cold outside i get more braking performance than when it is hot. Gotta check those gaskets. So u think a full fluid change and new seals, and gaskets will do the trick ? The fluid turned kind of black all of a sudden few months ago.

~Stefan

[enginerd]

If the fluid is black, there's definately garbage in it. I'd check and see that there's at least a few thousandths of an inch between the rotor and calipers when the car is parked. Don't do this after driving it- do it first thing in the morning. Replacing all the rubber and fluid may not rid you of the petroleum in the system. On this particular customer's car, I had to replace all of the system (just in case of a lawsuit).

[hondaman-iac]

so how did the petroleum got in there ? I know the rubber contains some petroleum, and if a gasket is messed up can put the petroleum in there. So you suggest replacing the master cylinder, hoses, brake lines, gaskets ?

[Dahmin8]

I once made a big mistake regarding brakes. This may apply. The story goes, I once wanted the newest performance products on the market. I had heard about a new and improved brake fluid called DOT 5. I added it (to my completely drained DOT 3) system so that, (as I heard) enable my motorcycle to stop better. Well, it turns out that DOT 5 and DOT 3 do not mix. (I was warned) I don't necessarily remember the technical aspect - maybe someone on AF will - but the swelling of the brake piston seals began. I was almost unable to stop when the seals froze in the open position. This happened on a motorcycle that I owned at the time. My rear master cylinder was unaffected because, I hadn't contaminated it with DOT 5. The moral of the story is, when replacing brake fluid, only use the recommended brand. If you do happen to change the fluid, the system should be thoroughly clean out. I don't know if DOT 5 is still out there in consumer land or not, but when it comes to brake systems I listen to Manufacturer reccomendations and competent mechanics. I was lucky or should I say blessed. :smoker2:

[hondaman-iac]

no i have dot 3 f;luid in there. I had to fill it up in the summer few times.

[Dahmin8]

Well, if you haven't changed any of the components in the brake system...you will probably have to overhaul the brake calipers to see if they are binding up, as previously mentioned. Red hot rotors would seem like a big problem if it's slowing you down when you accelerate. Maybe the pads are the wrong size (you know to large) so you don't have the clearance needed.
:smoker:

[hondaman-iac]

actualluy the pads got down to the metal lately, in less than one year.

[Dahmin8]

I've got Goodridge braided brake lines, slotted rotors and Axxis pads on my Accords. Here's a pic that I took after installing the brake lines.

Metal to metal on your rotors huh?:evillaugh

Sounds like the mad brake scientist are hard at work.
So what upgraded braking system are you looking into for your install?.

[hondaman-iac]

no upgrades at this time. I want to change just the god damn rotors. that's it. they are very thin too warped and shit like that. How did u take your rotors out ? I wanna know cause mine are due for a change tommorow.

[enginerd]

DOT-3 and DOT-4 are non-petroleum based (they actually are derived from vegetable oil). DOT-5 is silicone based so the two do not mix. DOT-5 has a higher boiling point and is more resistant to fade. Also when switching to DOT-5, all the seals must be replaced with DOT-5 compatible seals. Changing rotors is easy, just remove the wheel and disconnect the caliper and PLACE IT OUT OF THE WAY AND DO NOT LET IT HANG- GET SOME BAILING WIRE AND SITUATE IT SO THE FLEXIBLE BRAKE LINE IS NOT SUSPENDING THE CALIPER. Sometimes the rotor is fastened to the hub with a screw or a bolt, so take care not to lose these parts since you'll never find another one except at the boneyard. Just slide the rotor off and replace it. BEFORE YOU DRIVE THE CAR- PUMP BRAKES SEVERAL TIMES SO THE PADS ON THE CALIPER EXTEND AND TOUCH THE ROTOR. I don't know how many times I've seen people finish a brake job and realize that they don't have any brakes because the pads are not touching the rotor.

[hondaman-iac]

actually on my car the rotor is inbetween the wheel hub and thge steering knuckle. i tried removing the hub out of the steering knuckele without succes. Do i need a press or something like that. Dahim8 who changed yours ? Can u tell me how you took them out ? Thanks.

[Dahmin8]

Yes I changed my rotors. It was kind of difficult. Yes you have to remove the calipers. But on a 90 Accord like mine, I also had to separate the steering knuckle from the upper control arm and lower ball joint. With the whole steering knuckle, rotor and hub separated from the axle there were four star bolts that had to be removed to get the steering knuckle and dust cover off. These star bolts are located on the backside of the hub. The rotor has to be separated from the hub by the bolts on the frontside of the hub. Then the hub was pressed apart to release the rotor. While I had these parts apart, I greased up the needle bearings on the inside of the hub. After everything was pressed back together with the new slotted rotors installed, I replace the 4 starbolts with the correct metric bolt size reccomended. This was to make the removal easier in the future. Also while everything from the steering knuckle down was apart, I replaced the two lower ball joints. That was a big problem. But once the ball joints were replaced everything went back together fine. I planned for a long time to do this install. You know purchasing parts all the way up to that big event. I didn't have to bleed the brakes because the system was not opened. As long as you put the correct rotor on the correct side your system should work fine. Chilton makes a manual that I got from a local Pep Boys. It has a yellow Prelude on the front cover. Believe me, it was an invaluable tool, when it was time to start this "do it yourself" project.

I also want to be clear about something. I had help. The press that was used, was operated by someone else. I'm in the military and most of our bases have Hobby Shops. I believe a job like this should be taken on by a professional. If you have a lift, a press, and pneumatic tools at your disposal you could get this accomplished. If not? Well needless to say your car could be down a long time. :sun:

[hondaman-iac]

ok so in other words i need a press. i got to the point where i removed the 4 starbolts on the back, removed the axle but i couldn't take the hub out from that knukle. All the tools that i have is an airgun that produces 400ft / lb of torque (3 times the torque of my enine :shocked: and all the sockets and wrenches.