Generally speaking... 1/4...

[gigatron]

Ok, honestly I am every bit scared of fwd... in fact.. the current car my family owns is a 96ford taurus GL it's a V6 2valve/cylinder ohv car... it's about 150horsies and 140lbs of torque if im not mistaken (don't really care lol), it's fwd and automatic and it leaves many civics behind (not my point of the post dont get flamin' lol), now... either way.. it's slow.. its a very strong iron block though and known to go and die at 400k+.... currently we're at 212k and it's nearly as good as new! Quite reliable all that time!.. and yes 96.. my paps does a lot of driving. Anywho the last cars we had were rwd and they were beasts (not gona go into it)...

I am lost on one matter how ever.. generally speaking honda engines are of a high reving nature but every one is fwd.. with the exception of the s2000 and nsx (right?) which are rwd... and there was a guy up in quebec who made an awd crx (30k for it? nuts! ).

The aftermarket parts for hondas engines, generally any part for hondas is broad.. but how much can you really get out of fwd in a 1/4? A friend from HS has a 1999 Honda Civic SiR (better known as Si in US), that's the one with the B16 engine. It's a very light car like many other hondas and I guess that's what helps it go regardless of the low torque.. but what's the 1/4 on that? high 15, 16.. and that's suppose to be a 'sporty' model.

Then there are people who supercharge em or turbocharg em (how much boost can these take)? I remember some guy claiming 300horsies and running a low 12? wtf? Out of all honesty with say.. 300 ponies what kind of quarter mile would you get? I am just clueless with fwd..

Personally I am thinking about an 92 Eagle Talon TSI (AWD Turbo stock, doing low-mid 14 again.. depending on driver). I just wish to learn more about fwd and how it performs. Sure fwd if I'm NOT mistaken (not sure) should be much better in cornering (safer) although understeer would occur.. and fwd is also nice for snow and similar situations like that.. while rwd isn't... awd is nice for all sorts of terrain.. of course.. not that i'd even dare going off road to ruin the talon if I ever got it hehee....

Basically what kind of ponnies with a honda civic, a honda-acura integra, and such .. what kind of quarter miles. Be honest, I hope not to get someone saying "my honda does 10sec maaan!" but from what i've generally read most are not f&f/2f2f frenzied I love this forum anyway But.. I am clueless and inexperience with fwd when it comes to performance.. Technologically fwd is more advanced in hondas right?.. with nuff money anything can perform the right way u want it of course.. Ok enough ranting Sorry for my cluelessness in FWD.

[loesch8102]

Well and Integra LS is listed at 16 flat in the quarter. I think The GSR is like 15.5? And the type-R is somewhere around 14.8. I know what you mean about being slow. Most Honda's are slow compared to their detroit counterparts. FWD does suck too. The main reason I decided to get my Integra wasn't really for the speed out right. I love the styling, the high reving, handling ability, and I wanted to see what I could turn it into. I love just messing with stuff and finding out new things. It just seems more fun on a car that only costs like $6000. Also, I can't really get anything RWD around here cause the winters are like the South Pole. But honestly...I'd take a BMW any day. Plus, if you roll up to someone at a traffic light in a Firebird, no one will even try to race you cause they know they will lose. It's fun to pull up next to people that want to race just cause you got an Integra.

[b18c dx]

how about mid 13's w/ a I/H/E??? gutted h22 eg civic. and the look on some old guys face when you fucking blow the doors off some old ass rustang in ur little acura or honda. that look is priceless. yes fwd does suck, but every thing isn't perfect, and love my honda

[KrNxRaCer00]

Originally posted by b18c dx
how about mid 13's w/ a I/H/E??? gutted h22 eg civic. and the look on some old guys face when you fucking blow the doors off some old ass rustang in ur little acura or honda. that look is priceless. yes fwd does suck, but every thing isn't perfect, and love my honda

13's won't get u by many tru domestic enthus. its gonna take 10-11 second passes.

i mean, 13's are quick, but they are by no means that impressive IMO.

[gigatron]

So what would you say would get you to a 13? Just out of curiosity. I still find it hard to comprehend. How many ponies, how many mods, what kind of mods. What kind of base car, honda/acura, which model, which engine. Turbo, supercharged, NA? (please I never plan on using nitros, I just find it wrong :X personal opinion, I understand what its about but.. I am just not interested in that sort of 'performance boost').

[kittedb18bt]

loesch, the south pole doesnt snow very often at all. it is a high pressure region, very small amounts of precipitaion.

[gigatron]

Maybe he meant Canada That's where I am hehe.. Really don't care though, if its fwd or rwd or awd even if its snowing

So can you reply to my question generally I am still mystified with how much people can push out of a honda motor (regardless of the huge aftermarket which seems to be always hyped up that even 12 year olds are already dreaming of their 10sec honda -- damn you f&f.. damn you...), and regardless of fwd. I still dunno, if u just did engine mods and the engine pumped 300 horsies aproximately what kind of results would you get. Read my above posts don't feel like rewriting the same thing again

"So what would you say would get you to a 13? Just out of curiosity. I still find it hard to comprehend. How many ponies, how many mods, what kind of mods. What kind of base car, honda/acura, which model, which engine. Turbo, supercharged, NA? (please I never plan on using nitros, I just find it wrong :X personal opinion, I understand what its about but.. I am just not interested in that sort of 'performance boost')."

[KrNxRaCer00]

Drop a b18c1 into a 93 civic cx h/b.

add: i/h/e/test pipe/cams/clutch/lightened flywheel/vtec controller

strip ur interior (back seats, spare tire, passenger seat, side trimming etc)

lower ur tire pressure to around 22-24psi.

know how to drive, an u could hit high 13's w/ that set-up.

OR

Do an ls/vtec set-up (still in the 93 h/b) w/ the same things an run closer to mid 13's.

OR

drop an H22A w/ only simple bolt-ons an ur lookin at 13 second passes.

OR

Drop a b18b w/ simple bolts an turbo it to 10-12 psi in that same car. u'd be looking at mid-low 13's easy then...

[jonkadek]

yo gigatron,

It doesn't really matter about the amount of horsepower one achieves with a car to achieve a certain time(until you hit quicker times, like 12s). Don't forget that you also have torque. Now, you have to realize that horsepower & torque curves differ with types of motors. Then you have to realize that bolt-on parts have different applications to optimize certain parts of the powerband (Which you aim for will affect your E.T). It doesn't matter on the brand that you should get, you should be looking at the design of the performance parts. Airflow is critical for optimum engine performance(intake, headers, exhaust, etc.). For example, you throw a 3" cat-back exhaust, 4-1 headers, and any intake on a 1.5 honda motor and you get a turtle, plain and simple. In 1/4 mi racing, the turtle never beats the hare(unless the hare breaks a hind leg or gets shot by a hunter before he crosses the finish line). And the 1.5 wouldn't be a fun daily driver. Brands only show different hp & torque figures(better or worse). Then again, certain brands include better electronics for turbos and superchargers(ex:greddy turbo w/piggyback ecu). Remember, a loss of power doesn't necessarily mean that the performance part sucks. Hp & torque curves may change, but it may have a more useable powerband, which may be better for 1/4 times. You may research for dyno tested parts or dyno you car yourself. Internals would also be needed to achieve these times. This you'll probably gain knowledge of down the line. Like anything else in life, you have to get your foot in the door first, then you make your own decision on how dedicated you want to be. You can also work on better engine response(includes airflow, ignition, fuel flow, and tranny accessories). In the end, it all comes down to one thing.........THE DRIVER!!!!!!!!! Driver input is critical in achieving better E.T., especially with standard cars. Lets use clutch kits as an example for driver input. Just because a clutch kit is claimed to be the best on the market, it doesn't mean that it will be best for you. The clutch may be the best, but the pressure plate that is to be used may make your clutch pedal to stiff or disengage where you don't want it to. Doing clutch drops on a drag strip is not always good. Don't worry, everything you don't understand will fall in place as long as you stick with it!!!!!

jon

Special note: For all of you guys that think an automatic car is not a racer, think again. Yes, a standard integra will beat an automatic one on a drag strip. Remember this, the word 'racer' is only a general term used for the sport. F1 cars run electronically controlled automatic transmissions that reach 200+ mph. I get dissapointed everytime I see these comments, so please think twice before your present these comments on automatic transmissions.

mahalo

[loesch8102]

I'm sorry kittedb18bt. I guess I better go watch the discovery channel come more huh? That was a good one though.

[gigatron]

Hey this thread was informative! Thanks everyone for the info and posts.

I am surprised that a civic/teg FWDs can manage a 13 and stuff that's what's bothering me I still find it hard to believe until I experience it @_@; There are a million factors that affect it, you are right, peak horsepower and torque mean little but I was just generally speaking based on some sites and their claims (Club Si I think comes to mind).

The aftermarket is insanely huge for hondas/acuras, and stock they run poorly low-high 15s, 16 but I find it hard to still believe that with a few boltons perhaps some custom work too (of course) and such you'd drop the cars down to 13s :X That's what I've been pondering o_O; The lightening of the car is understandable but.. @_@ I'm still lost I don't have ANY experience with FWD cars, well.. the family car is a FWD. Ford Taurus GL -- 3.0L Vulcan V6 2v iron block engine, automatic fwd. But.. performance wise :X Got any examples of what people have done with theirs and actually run 13s (for real, not just some guy boasting around they got a new performance air filter). Alot of sites on the internet are kind of funny with the claims, so I am confued Some claim low 10s and well don't show slips.. but I have found very few that actually show slips so :X

[93weed_eater]

The fastest FWD inline 4 has run low 8's in the 1/4. This is pro drag raceing though. fastest times N/A are in the 10's also pro drag raceing This may have changed i haven't been watching the drag scene as much as i used to.

[gigatron]

But how much does it cost compared to other cars, other wheel systems, rwd, awd. Other engines. That's what I've been looking at for like an eternity for the last two years almost every day. No car is perfect of course. With money any car can go fast, handle exteremly well, etc...

AWD Turbo Talons seemed to be 'the easy way' although the fears of crankwalk spoil me. Porsche 944 Turbo seems like a cool stock car for cheap, poor man's porsche, what about insurance, what about parts and maintance generally speaking. MR2 Turbo seems like the same handling slightly stronger handling in a sense (Eagle Talon TSI has a 0.89 Lateral G, MR2 Turbo as I recall has a 0.92 Lateral G). The 1/4 is relatively the same mid-high 14 stock depends on driver. 0-60 that i saw was like 6.1 for mr2 turbo. again it all depnds on driver. 0-60 for talon i forget but if i recall a mid 6. Then I thought about E30 Bimmers, which my paps and I have experience with. But it all comes down to, performance/value/money. How much does it cost to make it go fast, how much does it cost to make it handle great, how much effort.

Just getting a new manifold, airfilter, etc.. will not get your hosies or torque up 20+ @_@ Heck my father was almost fooled by advertisment like that. Well it was relating to air filter heh.. pretty sad sounding. I dunno I'm mumbling

My question, how much does it take to make a civic or teg go fast What kind of mods to it. I still find it hard to believe that getting a certain honda engine and dropping it that stock would do 15-16 then getting a few boltons makes it go fast I dunno, I wana know. I am one of those people against bashing hondas, but I wana know what really makes them be great besides the huge aftermarket that most could afford. It's a fun car none the less but ya :X

But those pro drag racers have a totally new chasis at times, all carbon fibre, etc...

A streetable car that can do say 13s.. That's why I mentioned talon but.. "don't be hatin!" I like civics and tegs but I dunno, I'm just thinking what I'd be getting as a good tuner car, potential, etc.. that would last not die (the idea of crankwalk plagues me with talons I don't buy that.. I don't want such a risk that's unfixable). The most affordable in that say. Again no perfect car exists :_: "Don't be hatin!" I just wana hear everyone's opinion and experiences on the matter.

[jonkadek]

Sup Gigatron,

Ok, lets start at the differences between FWD and RWD. The reason fwd is so slow is because they are pulling the weight of the car, where rwd is pushing the weight of the car. Usually, the RWD car has more hp & torque. So in actuality the RWD feels and is faster. Yes, I think that rwd has a better feel and presents less body roll in a turn, but fwd does NOT SUCK! They are equally good. I believe that fwd should produce better 0-60ft times than rwd because more weight is above/around the wheels being driven. This where it is most important for fwd cars. Since you can't beat a rwd in all-out speed, you might as well beat 'um off the line. If you were to compare fwd with awd (accompanying the same motor), the awd will always beat the fwd to the 60ft mark. On the way to the 1/4 mile mark, the fwd will make up time....but the awd will still win. So , I point out that fwd does NOT SUCK in all out speed. This is because all the power is still being driven to only two wheels. Ok, I have to end this because I'm rambling.

Lets get to the Honda/Acura part. Is the discussion about vtec or non-vtec? If your talking about v-tec motors(other than the v-tec sohc ex), I see 13s being a lot easier to reach than non-vtec. If you bolt on a supercharger to any vtech motor, it would automatically become a complete motor. What I mean by 'complete' is that the motor has x-lnt low-high range power(for its size). In the 1/4 mile, they will produce good 0-60ft times(don't forget the weight) with x-lnt low-mid range power. Then vtech, in combo w/supercharger, will keep the car accelerating at a good pace to keep up with the V8s.

Oh, when your talkin about your taurus, remember that the motor is a lot larger(displacement) and has two more cylinders. The honda motors we are talking about are inline-4, which rev quicker because its smaller and the cylinders are lined up. Inline-4(w/o vtec) motors may beat the taurus in a 1/4mi race, but will lose in an all out speed battle; regardless of rev-limiters and speed governors.

I hope this helps??????????
I don't know if I covered everything 'cause I can't read your reply while writing this. Ok, I forgot something. I have a friend who knows a 40 something yr old guy(probably in 30s when racing) that built an LS motor w/turbo that ran low 12s w/standard, on STREET TIRES!! My friend told me the guy had an auto before the standard, and it was running mid-to-low 13s. Even before the turbo, he built an all-motor LS that ran 13s w/street tires! Now thats impressive! First time I heard or read about an LS that ran 13s. The guy has quit racing because the baby came poppin' out. Just like you pointed out, these are just claims. I kind of believe my friend because I had the opportunity to purchase this motor. I don't know if he'll have any slips, but I'll ask any way.

When you reply, also state street tires or slicks.

mahalo
jon

[jonkadek]

With the cars coming out now, take your pick of drivetrain. They're all affordable, although, I think rwd drive doesn't really exist anymore with the new sport compact cars coming out(in the U.S.) w/4 cylinders. If your trying to achieve 13s with spending the least amount of money, opt for the wrx. Or if thats to cheap, just get an STI or EVO.

There is a pair of blue wrxs down here in hawaii which are running consistent 13s. One of them hit 12s because he threw a larger turbo/intercooler package in. But from what I heard their mods are minimal(other than the 12s guy). I've seen these cars run these times at our local drag strip.